Kippax

?

Mr.Cookie

It's all to do with the missus

Lower = baby factory to get the income support, for the lazy get of a bloke

Middle = She has to earn a living to

Upper Class = Work Darling, never heard of it

Si

Ps Flame suit on

Cblack

on daytime TV they had the same discussion , some toff lord was asked about the ability of new money eg ( posh and becks ) to become upper class. " Maybee in several generations" was the rather smug reply.

Sith

Mr Cookie - spot on really.

CBlack - Agree with the Toff. Suddenly getting loadsa cash does not make someone upperclass.

P.

JoanUK300

My God Mr Cookie!
You really ask for trouble from your wife, with comments like that, it`s a wonder you are still married!
Joan.

KF

The perception of those in the class you are aspiring to.
That is to say: You win the lottery. You will be crass & unsophisticated according to those that consider themselves upper class.
You get made bankrupt, those that consider themselves "working class" will not see you as a stuck up toff. It is about community identity, in exactly the same way as race, religion and the decision about which car you choose to drive.
KF.

PeterUK300

iTrader: (1)

Well if we take Mr Cookie's rating's
My wife's a bludy upper class snob

I mean Housewife Easy life

Mr Cookie can I borrow the Flame suit.

All the best
Pete

Dave T-S

Joan
Cookie ISN'T married.....that's why he can get away with it LOL

Reminds me of the classic John Cleese/Ronnie Barker/Ronnie Corbett sketch of a few years ago - "I look down on him" etc

Mr.Cookie

Pete

Theirs me suit, i'll get me coat

Si
Ps Ya know it's true

KF

Kippax,
Yes - exactly. I find the notion of class difficult to handle, but as with any club, you can only be allowed entry by the patrons.

The notion of your class comes from peoples prejudices. If someone was told in their formative years that people can only be "upper class" if they maintain staff, then that is how they will judge a persons class.
Likewise for car, alma mater, property value, taste (clothes, food, music, etc), dialect, disposable income, job, family history, friends & parners "class", pet, etc etc...
KF.

boomer

Ali G asked the "class" question to Lord Rees Mogg.

Transcript at: http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/rat...439/class.html

mb

fast bloke

KF - I have a cleaner, a gardener and someone to do the ironing. My wife doesn't work cos she doesn't need to, and I 'maintain' staff as above. I never went to a normal school, but was educated in a prep and a college. I like beer more than spirits, and snooker more than billiards. I don't understand rugby or cricket. Where does that put me.

p.s. Why are the working class called the working class. Surely they are the unemployed class. Most people who are considered middle class work for a living, so these people would be working class?

KF

fb. <sucks teeth> You see, I was going to say middle, but then you said "don't understand Rugby". If that extends to "don't understand Rugby but go to the corporate box and get faced on Bollinger" then you are nudging upper

I think that the concept of a "working class" individual comes from being employed as a labourer. Which shows what a crock it is. I know labourers that earn considerably more than professionals, and have considerably more class than arrogant tossers who look down their nose at them.

Try to pidgeon-hole Tony Pidgley (owner of Berkeley Homes) - not easy, eh?

KF.

Chris L

I would say the definition of 'true' upper class is the ability to walk into somewhere like a nice Bond St boutique (the sort of place that has it's doors locked), wearing a scruffy pair of trousers, a knackered old Barbour jacket, purchase anything you like without asking the price and bugger off back to the country house!!

Why did I come up with a slightly obscure answer? It comes from having worked for Coutts (the Queens bank) for quite a few years. The 'old' money people (aristocracy for want of a better word) didn't give a monkeys about how they looked / dressed - they really didn't care what other people thought. It was slightly odd seeing some of these people walk into 440 Strand, looking like they had spent the night sleeping rough, but were in reality worth several hundred million It certainly teaches you that first impressions are not always correct!

There always seem to be a distinction between the 'old' and 'new' money people - as if they were somehow looking down on them. Other than that I couldn't decribe the distinctions between the other classes, I think it is blurring all the time.

Chris

fast bloke

KF - Great - All I need now is a corporate box and a pint of Bollinger. Will that do the trick?

zoog

It's difficult to define but it certainly has only a weak, and weakening, correlation with money.

Class is more about education, culture, sensibilities and sensitivities, and attitudes.

Education is the best way to achieve social class mobility. Just getting rich does not work, as professional football players prove - but it will eventually give your children and grandchildren more "class" as they will grow up enjoying a cultured education and environment.

john banks

There was a system from I to V with III non manual and manual based on profession of the senior male member of the household, so a female lawyer or doctor married to a binman would be V, but it has now been superceded into a more detailed system with subdivisions. Students are automatically II, children otherwise are as their parents.
I was higher professions, II other professions, IV skilled manual, V unskilled manual and I forget III but it had a manual and non manual division.

They are only useful to me in that they are actually quite good predictors of virtually all health outcomes in studies. Otherwise a bit pointless.

In healthcare, all the well Social Class I folk with healthy lifestyles clog up surgeries "worried well" and the Social Class V folk stay away. It is helpful because you can target more deprived folk for health promotion - the benefits are dubious though.

GranTurismo

People who hold thier knives like pencils are working class
If you smoke your **** with your finger and thumb you are working class.
If you think paying more than £10 head in a resteraunt is living it up you are working class.
If you call people posh because they pronounce the letter "h" then you are working class
If you can not recite the current plot situation of soap operas you not working class

john banks

People that cannot spell restaurant are working class

fast bloke

John - What is a 'higher profession'

KF

pilot?

There is a more detailed socioeconomic grouping system, which I guess is what Mr Banks is talking about. Used lots in targetted advertising / insurance and so on...
KF.

john banks

Doctors Lawyers Priests :O don't know what else but there are many more and I can't find a list handy! "Higher" is what they are/were referred to. Probably inverse to income and a dubious relationship with intelligence or education for at least some of them

Luke

Lower class means stealing any Subaru
Middle class is having a Impreza
Upper Class is having a Legacy.




[Edited by Luke - 1/6/2002 3:26:52 PM]

JoanUK300

Probably NEVER will be married if he carries on like that.
And as for my other half, I`m sure he has a secret death wish
Joan.

P.S. Peter, you need more than a bludy flame suit sweetheart!

[Edited by JoanUK300 - 1/6/2002 9:30:55 PM]

Kippax

KF - Are you saying it is the way you are perceived by those in the class you aspire to that defines your class, i.e. accepted by that class.

What attributes do that class have to have and see in you to decide?



[Edited by Kippax - 1/6/2002 9:41:10 PM]

Kippax

[Edited by Kippax - 1/6/2002 11:53:29 PM]

Kippax

KF - I agree that its difficult to understand what defines class and that it's all to do with perceptions.

x and y have never met but meet by chance on a train journey. They are equally polite, well spoken, honest and exchange similar veiws. x considers him/herslf middle class and thought y was middle class. y feels lower class and thought x was middle class.

Does x's perception of y make y middle class?
Is x really middle class anyway?
What else does y have to do to feel middle class?

[Edited by Kippax - 1/6/2002 11:57:33 PM]

DavidBrown

My 5 ECU:

If you work for a living, you're working class (by definition)

If you don't have to work for a living, and live off your own money, you're middle class.

If neither you, nor 2 generations back have never had to work for a living, and you live off family money, you're upper class.

Many people think they're Middle Class because they have 2 cars and a detached house.. which is sad really.




[Edited by DavidBrown - 1/7/2002 10:40:28 AM]

KF

DavidBrown,
The classical definition :

Working class - labourers.
Middle class - professional
Upper class - hereditary nobility

Since the blurring of the boundaries in wealth between all of these arbritary distinctions, it has become much more fuzzy - and is more defined by attributes in a previous post of mine.

How many hereditary peers are having to work to keep hold of their stately mansion? These people would still consider themselves to be "upper class".
KF.

EDIT: Displaying my bad class with appalling spelling.

[Edited by KF - 1/7/2002 10:58:27 AM]