NeilT

Anyone see this last night?

This last episode in this superb series came to a close with the F22 - the story of the contract to build the replacement to the F15 Eagle - which was eventually won by Lockheed with their F22 Raptor - apparantly streets ahead of Northrops F23 effort, with Lockheed having gone back to the drawing boards and re-designed in just 3 months. Both were required to be radar invisible.

At the end they pitted one f22 against 5 f15's using simulated missile locks - the raptor took them all out. Most of the pilots raving about just how advanced the 22 is.

USAF now got 300 on order with Lockheed. I wonder what Russia will come up with to compete?

Best doc. I've seen for a while

Neil

RESSE

iTrader: (1)

Neil

Great programme

Superb presenter.

Learnt loads of new facts.

$9 Billion contract - would like to receive that one in the workplace!

Richard

Markus

Fantastic plane. Had two of them flying at the Toronto Air Show last year (looks like we'll have one this year as well) and they were an amazing sight.

hux309

YouTube - F-22 Raptor Airshow Demo at Langley Air Force Base

Yup i saw it, didn't teach me anything i didn't already know but i thoroughly enjoyed it.

Can't wait for the trenche-3 eurofighter typhoon, it'll have the same active radar as the raptor, an ability to scramble secure datalinks that the raptor uses and will make use of 3d thrust vectoring like the sukhoi su37, unlike the f22 that uses 2d vectoring.

Still an impressive if not very expensive piece of kit.

YouTube - Sukhoi SU-30 Flight Demonstration

YouTube - Eurofighter Typhoon

sbk1972

I watched something like this on a Discovery channel. 10 Most deadliest planes. Wasnt there a fighter that was far better than all these, but the production costs were just too high ??

Mmm not sure was I was also switching channels on to MTV trying to work out if I would do the ginger one in Girls Aloud.

SBK

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

is the raptor the one that due to its aerodynamics and stealth capabilities is impossible to fly without the onboard computers controlling things sort of behind the scenes?

myblackwrx

iTrader: (1)

most fighter planes are like that now i think the Eurofighter is the same.

What's the F35 Lightning 2 meant to replace as this is an advancement of the f22

finchyboy

Give me an old English Electric Lightning anyday!!

Buckwheat

Will replace the Harrier.

andys

My bother in law was on of the F15 test pilots pitted against the F22 in the trails. It took many months of test before the F22 was anywhere near competitive against the f-15s

sbk1972

Andys. Wow, thats impressive. Wish I flew planes, instead of using a poncy keyboard all day.

Your brother in law, does he wear white t-shirts, brown leather jackets with sun glasses and ride a motor bike whilst listening to Berlin ???

When chatting up a girl, does he drop to his knee;s and sings "You 've lost that love and feeling!" ??

Bet he has a call name ??? something like Iceman, or longbolloxs ?

Hahahah :-) only joking.

SBK

Leslie

Do you live in the Toronto area?

Les

Markus

F35 was the winner of the JSF (Joint Strike Fighter) Program, have a read about that here. There is a very good tv prog called x-planes which details the JSF program and the competing planes.

As said by others, the JSF was setup to find a replacement for the F16.


Indeed I do, am right down by the lake near the humber river, can watch the air show from my patio, but this year we'll hopefully be watching it from out boat, probably just moored in the boat club, as it's a lot closer to Ontario Place (the main staging area for the Air Show).

stilover

Lamborghini are to build a car version of the Raptor

PistonHeads Headlines

CrisPDuk

The F35 is also intended to replace the Navy's F18 Hornets, if they ever get it light enough to land on a carrier without going through the deck

CrisPDuk

What's so difficult about that

I seem to recall that Les managed to get the drop on the odd F15 using a Vulcan FFS

swampster

iTrader: (1)

There is no definitive standard for Tranche 3 of the Typhoon just yet (some analysts are beginning to ask if it's even going to happen, although the RAF remains committed to it).. it was meant to be a progressive upgrade of various systems (with each tranche using new technology) However many of those upgrades slated for Tranche 3 are already appearing in the Tranche 2 aircraft.

The 3D thrust vectoring wasn't ever standard item of Tranche 3 aircraft. In fact there are no definite plans to fit it at all at present, although it's a stated ambition of some of the partner States to have it fitted in Tranche 3 aircraft.

How cool would that be!! Driving past speed cameras etc at silly speeds and them not being able to detect you due to stealth technologies!

windyboy

Windyboy.

Kuro

...and a shed load of other aircraft too, hence it being designed with a one-size-fits-all approach and more stuff on the options list than a BMW

hux309

Best i could manage in a short time

Eurofighter Technology and Performance : Propulsion


The EuroFighter Typhoon

As swapmster said there is no 100% commitment but i hope for our boys bae and the raf pull out all the stops for this one, should really upset the raptor along with the meteor missiles they plan to use.

2d vectoring being on just the horizontal and vertical axis, 3d being pretty much adjustable to any desired angle, hence why the sukhoi can pull such crazy maneuvers.

The typhoon from what i remember is the fastest climbing jet and can pull 6g's while supersonic, no other jet can accomplish this atm.

So with thrust vectoring it should be nuttier than a barrel of frogs.

Leslie

Yes I see, I did the Vulcan displays there in Sept '79. We were based in Trenton up the lake. I used to take great pleasure in laying smoke on the commentator's tent on Ontario Place I did a travelling display going down to Cleveland first and coming back for the Toronto one via Niagara Falls
That was the year they had a Concorde flypast and the clown driving it could not get the timing right even with triple inertial navigation kit and arrived before my display was finished! I bollocked him rigid at the party afterwards. Flaming BA Captains! I also got a chance to fly round the restaurant at the top of the CN Tower

Happy days!

Les

NeilT

no wonder then, they should leave clowns to the circus and get a pilot flying it

Daz34

How would it achieve radar/missile lock?

hux309

Stealth doesn't mean invisibility, it just tries to reduce your radar signature, plus the typhoon uses a lock on sight missile sytem similar to what's uses in the apache helecopter.

One look is all it would take, plus the tranche 3 typhoon will have the same if not more advanced radar than the raptor enabling it to be picked up easier.

Once your within visual range, no matter what your flying your a sitting duck.

swampster

iTrader: (1)

All the helmet mounted sighting system allows is that the ASRAAM or Mica-T missile seekers can be slaved to point in the direction the pilot is looking, the missile will indeed launch in that direction (upto a specific angle off boresight) however it will still need to have gained a "lock" on the target aircraft in this case the lock being a heat signature.

The Tranche 3 Typhoon's are not having the same radar as the Raptor, they may replace it with the "AMSAR" radar which is still under developement (UK - France - Germany), and is of similar technology to the Raptor's radar in that it's an active phased array. However like everything else much depends on cost and the will of the Government at the time. Otherwise it will still have the ECR-90 Captor radar which is still quite a decent bit of kit.

In reality, the Tranche 3 Typhoons would put up a decent fight against the F22 if they get the tactics and control right, enabling BVR missile shots with the Meteor. Otherwise I think the F22 would ordinarily beat the Typhoon in a straight up close and personal one on one.

hux309

Well, that's the reason why they haven't been fitted yet as you say cost is the main factor.

F22 vs tranche 3 typhoon, well i caught a thread somewhere done by a few boffins and the ef came out on top, not sure how accurate this would be in rl naturally.

I mentioned that the active radar might be more advanced as the raptor has been out for a while, some new developments might occure from then on, im sure the dass system will be getting an update and with the thrust vectoring which also improve thrust and efficiency the rolls royce engines will hopefully kick out 30% more thrust.

Will be interesting to see if a missile will keep up with the typhoon that's for sure.

What if the missile lock was optical and ir, it would be fun for the raptor then.

Either way id doubt a friendly would happen, a game of bounce might happen on the offchance they stray into the same airspace.

The rumourmill has it that the ef can scramble secure datalinks such as the one the f22 uses, naturally such information is classified.

turbomatt

iTrader: (1)

I envy the life you have had man flying vulcans for a living what other aircraft have you flown in your time ?

Nido

Lets not forget the F22 vs Typhoon debate needs to take pilot skill into the equation as well - the F22 boys will be far too busy shooting down anything that moves