Prius - KILL it!
25 June 2007, 04:42 PM
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The point being that it's not mpg that matters when considering the impact of your car - a Prius battery is terrible for the environment and the parts for it are made all over the World AND has to be replaced regularly.
But a Hummer is made all in one country, so despite being very thirsty, it makes much less impact than a Prius!
But a Hummer is made all in one country, so despite being very thirsty, it makes much less impact than a Prius!
25 June 2007, 04:47 PM
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Try telling that to a Tree hugger though.
Brainwashed by Governments wanting to raise more money by taxing us all, and claiming the Tax will save Planet earth. From what I don't know? Alien invasion I think
Brainwashed by Governments wanting to raise more money by taxing us all, and claiming the Tax will save Planet earth. From what I don't know? Alien invasion I think
25 June 2007, 04:50 PM
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A Hummer has also a lot longer expected usable life as well !
All figures can be distorted one way or another! If looking at it this way Land Rover / Range Rover do well as often see 15 / 20 years old Range Rover / Land Rover happily pottering about !
Nice statistic to shove in the tree huggers pipes and smoke it ! My old 3.9 V8 Range Rover is actually good for the environment !!
Richard
All figures can be distorted one way or another! If looking at it this way Land Rover / Range Rover do well as often see 15 / 20 years old Range Rover / Land Rover happily pottering about !
Nice statistic to shove in the tree huggers pipes and smoke it ! My old 3.9 V8 Range Rover is actually good for the environment !!
Richard
Last edited by richs2891; 25 June 2007 at 04:50 PM. Reason: spelling
25 June 2007, 04:54 PM
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Financial energy costs don't show the environmental impact. What about the CO2 per mile?
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25 June 2007, 04:57 PM
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Andy - I'm trying to find the source (mayeb GM?!) but no luck so far.
It's basically the entire lifecycle cost of a car from extraction of materials, it's entire costs while being run, then the costs of recycling it.
I'm sure they may be "skewed" but they Prius, while good on fuel, is pretty poor in most other areas - made all over the world, two engines using nasty chemicals, etc.
25 June 2007, 05:02 PM
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Agreed with Matteeboy.
Also have to dispose of the large batteries! Nice.
I've also read about this somewhere. Just can't recall the media source.
Saw a Lexus RX Hybrid yesterday. It was doing a 3-point turn in complete silence as I walked passed. It then pulled off and the engine fired up. A hybrid SUV does'nt make sense to me either.
Nick
Also have to dispose of the large batteries! Nice.
I've also read about this somewhere. Just can't recall the media source.
Saw a Lexus RX Hybrid yesterday. It was doing a 3-point turn in complete silence as I walked passed. It then pulled off and the engine fired up. A hybrid SUV does'nt make sense to me either.
Nick
Last edited by skoobidude; 25 June 2007 at 05:06 PM.
25 June 2007, 05:05 PM
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Thanks. I do understand the principle - it's just that although I've heard claims before that the Prius is a cradle-to-grave disaster, I've never seen a more detailed breakdown of where the figures come from in order to assess how complete or accurate they might be.
I'm genuinely interested to know what the score is - but somehow I can't see Toyota being too keen on providing the results of such an analysis
BTW did anyone see Evo this month? Unlikely as it may be, they tested the Prius against the current Fiat Panda - a car of not dissimilar load capacity, but half the price. The Prius' fuel economy was just 10% better...
I'm genuinely interested to know what the score is - but somehow I can't see Toyota being too keen on providing the results of such an analysis
BTW did anyone see Evo this month? Unlikely as it may be, they tested the Prius against the current Fiat Panda - a car of not dissimilar load capacity, but half the price. The Prius' fuel economy was just 10% better...
25 June 2007, 05:09 PM
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Andy - Read the Evo article too. The Prius weighs a load more, uses more tyres, brake disks and pads, etc, etc and those batteries are just nasty.
I've had a search but can't find the source, however there are plenty of forums ranting for and against the topic!
I've had a search but can't find the source, however there are plenty of forums ranting for and against the topic!
25 June 2007, 05:13 PM
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25 June 2007, 05:23 PM
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25 June 2007, 05:29 PM
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Seat Arosa PD TDi does that now 76MPG. Keep it long time then get rid, saves the evironment, buy and keep
TG covered this a few issues back "Green Edition" Koneigsssseegggggg on the front. Most L/R's are still on the road so no recycling issues etc. Excellent explainations to defeat the "Huggers".
TG covered this a few issues back "Green Edition" Koneigsssseegggggg on the front. Most L/R's are still on the road so no recycling issues etc. Excellent explainations to defeat the "Huggers".
Last edited by The Trooper 1815; 25 June 2007 at 05:32 PM.
25 June 2007, 06:09 PM
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Why per mile? You need to ascertain the environmental impact over the lifecycle of the car (i.e. incl manfacturing, scrapping etc.). Also CO2 is not the only enviromental impact a car has.
25 June 2007, 06:25 PM
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Miles travelled is the value. If a car's useful life is twice as long, the manufacturing and scrapping costs per mile are halved. Yes, there are other environmental things to worry about, but CO2 is what's got everyone worried right now.
25 June 2007, 06:37 PM
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Done proper green laning in one - All luxury leather seats and loads of toys but VERY capable on a tractor "only" track!
25 June 2007, 08:19 PM
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The original paper appears to have been disappeared.
[tinfoil hat]I had a copy of it as a pdf file on my own machine, but that's gone too...[/tinfoil hat]
Anyway, there's a rebuttal of it here
(Edited to add the original paper is available from Automotive Energy)
[tinfoil hat]I had a copy of it as a pdf file on my own machine, but that's gone too...[/tinfoil hat]
Anyway, there's a rebuttal of it here
(Edited to add the original paper is available from Automotive Energy)
Last edited by ricardo; 25 June 2007 at 08:25 PM.
25 June 2007, 09:04 PM
#22
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If you want to point a finger at a real contributor to CO2 (although CO2 is probably not causing natural global warming, just supporting taxation plans) then consider the 400kg per year the average human exhales and multiply it by 6.6 billion 
25 June 2007, 10:39 PM
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But it's a moot point, the Prius wasn't built to save money, it was built to reduce CO2 emissions so $ per mile isn't the measure to compare.
25 June 2007, 10:45 PM
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I wonder if the D-D figures for the Hummer include references to it's heritage, namely the HMMWV which was a military vehicle involved in the "odd war" that America decided to start - so the true overall "carbon footprint" must be pretty massive!!!
Then again, the Prius runs on electricity, so by the time you have included the entire infrastructure costs for the national grid, it looks pretty bad
...or, maybe, just maybe, statistics are being manipulated
mb
Then again, the Prius runs on electricity, so by the time you have included the entire infrastructure costs for the national grid, it looks pretty bad
...or, maybe, just maybe, statistics are being manipulated
mb
25 June 2007, 11:12 PM
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So that blows your argument!
25 June 2007, 11:17 PM
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25 June 2007, 11:29 PM
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It's not like I was boy racing it or trying to make it have bad mpg - I was simply driving between offices in stop start traffic around town - something the Prius is supposed to excel at.
Also given how much plastic it uses it must have already used a few barrels of oil just on the interior!
Awful car.
PS I thrash the nuts of my BMW530d Touring and my Suzuki Swift and they both do 35mpg at worst. I am sure I could easily drive them both over 40mpg.
Also given how much plastic it uses it must have already used a few barrels of oil just on the interior!
Awful car.
PS I thrash the nuts of my BMW530d Touring and my Suzuki Swift and they both do 35mpg at worst. I am sure I could easily drive them both over 40mpg.
25 June 2007, 11:45 PM
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26 June 2007, 03:15 AM
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There are plenty of scientists out there who dispute the claims of the enviroment fundamentalist movement, they just aren't permitted to voice their opinions