Deep Singh

IGNORE THE RAMBLINGS ON THIS POST, SEE POST NUMBER #12 INSTEAD FOR CLEARER EXPLANATION.


My extension is coming on in leaps and bounds and so have to make some decisions ASAP! It looks like this

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...tension001.jpg

The big french doors and window you see will be taken out and this space will be semi open plan to the kitchen ie big live in kitchen were we can all chill out.
It will also house a new TV system. I'm going to get something quite nice but not high end as its not just a AV room, and my baby will probably be screaming half the time. I will purchase

1) 32-36 inch plasma
2) Home cinema in a box, ie something that gives surround but not over the top
3) Sky+(maybe HD)
4) DVD player

Now I haven't actually bought any of these yet.

I'm thinking of mounting them all on this wall

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../extension.jpg

Which is the extreme left hand side of the first pic

We will sit directly opposite on this side


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...tension002.jpg


Which is the extreme right hand side of first pic.

I want the tv/tuner/central speaker/sky box high enough off the ground so my baby can't destroy it when he starts crawling. Don't want the TV so high though that I'm craning my neck when sat on the sofa. So I'm thinking mount all the hardware to one side of the tv.

Can someone please advice where I should ask the builder to place cables for a 'wirefree' fit. Including electrical sockets and speaker cables. I also need to know exactly which cables as I don't own any of the hardware yet!

Thanks for taking the time.

ps please don't ask me to ask avforums, they do my head in!

philc

not too sure about wiring / connections requirements - might be best to engage a local home theatre installer to give advice.

But other random thoughts;
- is the wall where you are mounting the screen viewable from the kitchen - it's quite handy if you're looking at open plan and with the viewing arc of a plasma it's quite watchable from an oblique angle and helps save cutting off the kitchen from the living area.
- if you're not too fussed about surround sound have you looked at 2 speaker systems that mimic surround? KEF have a good 2 speaker system. The benefit is not only less speakers but there's also a much bigger 'sweet spot' that delivers surround effect to most parts of the room. link here; KEF Instant Theatre
- lastly, I'm not sure if I would spend too much on a DVD until the market sorts itself our re: HDD or Blu-Ray

good luck!

Suresh

We put all our AV stuff in a lockable hardwood cabinet. Our living room is more colonial rather than trendy, so that works quite well. Practical too, as our little boy of 2 1/2 can't get at it, nor all the cd's / dvd's which are in a separate cabinet.

Deep Singh

Phil, thanks. The plasma will be in sight line through the opening however there is a seperate small tv going in the kitchen.

Don't want to engage a specialist as they will end up flogging me expensive kit I don't need(I'm not strong on resisting temptation)

Suresh, our kitchen is sort of minimalist clean lines and so wooden cabinets won't suit and also it'll be cheaper (I suppose) to just mount the stuff on shelves on the wall.

Further input appreciated.

LG John

There aren't many plasma's under 42" on the market and to be honest given the favourable price and choice in the 42" range I'd get one of those. A 42" will probably be 'just right' in terms of size for that room.

Deep Singh

.

Ok, but help me with the wiring please! Tell me where on that wall I need what kind of cables to be run where!

AsifScoob

Deep,

I don't pretend to be an expert but would seriously recommend Richer Sounds as really knowing what they are talking about, very helpful, plus very good prices.

What I can suggest is the Sony KDL-40W2000 40" HD LCD TV. Saw it in John Lewis the other week and really liked it. £1,800 in store (with 5 year guarantee etc) but £1,300 online!

Had a very high res screen compared to others and the picture looked great even on non HD transmission.

Mate of mine has one living/dining area plus young baby and has opted for an LCD Projector. Ceiling mounted so no issue there, plus 96" picture! I liked that too.

Do you not have a bathroom on that side of the house, as I cannot see any pipes or drains from an upstairs bathroom? Just curious, as these things often have to be boxed away when building extensions.

Good idea to have the cables in the walls before you plaster, just need to be sure of your set up, but Richer are very good at advising on that sort of thing.

Sorry for meandering post but have been in the beer garden all afternoon!

Asif

LG John

I'd go for a simple solution, in fact, I did go for a simple solution. Get a half decend HD A/V receiver with HDMI in and out ports. I've got an Onkyo 674e (now £400) and it's fantastic and relatively future proof. Since you will run your speakers from that (thus they can be as cheap or expensive as you like) I'd consider getting a commercial plasma panel as opposed to a 'TV'. I've got the Panasonic 42" PH9 with a single HDMI board. With this solution there is one HDMI cable to the plasma and the power cable (obvoiusly). Everything else (DVD, Consols, etc) connects up to the Onkyo and it does all the switching. The good thing is that you shouldn't ever have to fanny around connecting anything to the plasma as the receiver is your 'hub'.

The only thing with the Onkyo is that it doesn't have scart input so if you plan on connecting up anything really old to it you'll have to think again. TBH, though that would be like buying a new M5 and running it on cooking fat byproduct from your new kitchen

Guinness

iTrader: (1)

I've just finished my setup and i used a HDMI cable from amp which does dvd and sky hd,component cable for xbox or ps3 a s-vga cable for my pc and a s-vid as a spare(always handy).Alan.......

Deep Singh

Ok. Its obvious I have no idea what I am doing. I'll get myself along to a specialist shop and see if I can get some advice from them. Problem is I'm not sure what I'm even asking!

ScoobyDoo555

Deep,

Kinda depends on what sort of budget you've got.

But the connections are really simple. I'd also look at a tv with a built in freeview (for the occasions where you want to watch more than one thing - will come on to this )

Anyhoo,

DVD player, Sky box (+ games consoles etc) - all go into the AV amp. HDMI/SCART all depends on how much you spend on the toys. However, rest assured, HDMI is good, but you only get so many HDMI inputs/outputs, so compromise has to be the key word.

The "monitor" output of the amp goes into the TV. The audio outputs (stereo - phono) of the TV also go into the amp. (this allows you to watch freeview with the same audio quality as the rest of your system, + if you plug a video camera or something similar (as you've got kids!), you can listen to it with the same quality.

The connection options are -

Sky - SCART
DVD - HDMI, or component (nearly as good as HDMI), SCART
TV - EVERYTHING!
The amps usually are Component, S-video, stereo phono - but rarely SCART, as they're too big and bulky, so what I'm getting at is that you'd need some leads with different connectors each end.

Also include an aerial (coaxial) cable a high-gain aerial in the loft or on the roof (depending on how good your freeview signal is)- this will allow to watch digital tv whilst somebody else is watching the other digital signal. We use it all the time - kids watching Disney channel, whilst I'm watching BBC (thru freeview)
You can also distribute both sky and freeview signals through the house - allowing you to watch it in all rooms

Panel-wise, there's SO many arguements and opinions on this, but I went for a Panasonic 42" Plasma. It's not the latest model and doesn't show 1080p, but my train of thought was that I'm not going to start chasing the latest technology, especially as it's not widely used yet and won't be for a few years.

With reference to the AV Amp, most are surround sound. I made sure that mine had DTS (compared to Pro-Logic it's crystal clear)

I wouldn't worry about wireless rear speakers now, as you can install the cable whilst the room's being built

The quality of the sound will be down to how good the amp is and the speakers you get. Money doesn't necessarily mean they'll sound good though

The only thing I will say is, over-spec the amp (in terms of facilities AND amplification)


I'm by no means an expert on this, but I do work in the pro-audio field. I've just done my system, and once I've built my false wall to mount my plasma on, it will be really good

Hope this helps

Feel free to PM if you want any more advice - I could sort out a diagram for you too

Dan
Hope this helps

Deep Singh

Thanks all. Dan;

Went down to Sevenoaks for some advice and reading the above things are making more sense.I'm sure you've already told me half of this in your post but imagine this:

1)Big blank wall onto which plasma/lcd will be mounted. So will put one power socket at the tv position so it can plug straight in. Agree? What is optimum height of screen above ground, assume normal sofa.( TV will be a good, modern one budget £1k+)

I will house all remainder AV equipment in a lockable cabinet directly below the TV on the floor. Call this position X

2) I will have three speakers on this wall ie 2 sides and one central. So will run 3 speaker cables to these positions from position X.Agree?

3) Will have two speakers at the back mounted on the wall so will run two cables there from position X. Agree?

4) Will run one subwoofer cable from X to an appropriate location. This will be shielded coaxial type. Agree?

Now the question is which cables do I need to run from position X to proposed TV position? According to Sevenoaks if I have a good enough amp all I need is:

1) 1xHDMI lead which will bring signal from Sky+/DVD/Amp to the TV. Add one extra HDMI just in case.

2) Some cables in case I want to use the intrinsic TV speakers?

3) Coaxial cable for freeview in case the Sky packs up. But should this be going from the TV position to X or from the TV position straight to the outside of the building so it can go up to the aerial?

Now thats fine if I get an amp of a certain grade. Problem is I'm not sure what my budget is yet because I'm having all my house refurbed and could run out of money at any time!
So lets say that my amp doesn't support HDMI ie I get a home cinema in a box for now. Which cables (please spell it out for me) do I need to run from position X to TV position to work the following( and nothing else ie I will not game or use PC)

a) Sky+/HD

b) DVD player

c) Amp of course.

Also I'm a bit confused by this HDMI business. When looking up specs in What Hi Fi they state which DVD players have HDMI out, but there is no mention if the amps have HDMI in. Is it the case that the Sky/DVD player feed into the amp and then from the amp a HDMI connection goes to the TV?

Hope this makes some kind of sense and many thanks for helping

Deep

ScoobyDoo555

OK

1. Could do that, but you'll have cables in view (which IMHO, looks sh1te). Why not do a false wall (on battoning) and hide the cables/sockets behind there - with access of course! Also put more sockets than you'll need

2,3 & 4 yes

OK. For the amp - yes, HDMI if you've got the budget for it.
2 & 3, read my post

If the budget isn't there,

From (a) Sky+/HD (bearing in mind the two different boxes will affect how you set up)

Sky+ - Scart to composite phono (yellow, red, white) or S-Video
Sky HD - HDMI to the TV. TV audio outputs (red. white) into some inputs of the amp

(b) DVD player (again - depends on how good it is)
Scart to composite phono (yellow, red, white) or S-Video
OR if it's a good un
component out (red,green blue phono) - to component in. OR
HDMI to TV
optical or digital coax out of DVD into Amp


To answer your last question, yes, you feed all signals (audio and video - hence the term AV amp ) into the Amp, then the "monitor" output (video signal, basically) goes into the TV (ie, your 'monitor').....
That applies to HDMI or component (red, green, blue phonos) or S-Video


The preference would be either HDMI (but quite pricey) or component IMHO...

Hope this helps

Dan

Deep Singh

Hi Dan,

You did offer to help

1) Why do I need a false wall? If you see the second pic in my first post you'll see the wall is yet to be finished. So I'll put the power socket for the TV behind where the TV will go so will be hidden. The power sockets for the amp/dvd etc will be behind where the AV cabinet will go so they will be hidden. Cables from TV to position X will be placed behind plaster board(or whatever builder is using) So no wires on show. Agree?

2) To cover all eventualities if I run the following cables ( from TV position to position X)I should be covered?

a) 2x HDMI leads

b) 1x coaxial lead from TV position out of the building for Freeview

c) 1x Scart to composite phono

d) 1x Scart to S Video

e) 1x Component in to component out

As far as I can gather from your post these cables should cover me whether I choose Sky+ or HD, and on yet unknown sophistication of both the DVD and amp.

Many thanks for helping and I'm sorry to keep asking the same questions again and again.

ScoobyDoo555

No probs mate

Will keep looking in from time to time today, but it's my daughter's birthday, so ...... things to do

Here's my Plasma-



This is my old setup at the moment - still waiting to build the false wall....

As can be seen along the floor - loads of cables coming from the back of the TV (inc power)

I don't want them to be seen once my TV is wall mounted - I just want the TV hung like a picture frame (with no dangling cables)
The false wall will allows me to put a hole behind the TV to feed the cables into (and down to the ground) where they will run behind the unit. They will be accessible by some removeable skirting board (old trick from the studio)

Without a false wall, you would have to use trunking, or channel out the wall to lay the cables into - not very good if you upgrade or add into the system

Does this make sense? Not too sure if I've explained it correctly

Your cabling sounds about right, but I would wait until you spec the AV kit, otherwise you'll be chucking money down the toilet - half-decent cables (as in good conductors and well insulated) will cost from about £30-odd each.....

Hope this helps

Dan

Deep Singh

Hi Dan,

Happy returns to the little un!

What you're saying makes more sense now. I thought there would be a gap between the breeze blocks and the plasterboards where I could run the cables so in other words have a kind of false wall. Have just discovered there is no gap, so cables can be sandwiched there but as you said no further additions ie cables can not be 'pulled through'

I still feel the best option for me is rather than have the expense of a false wall and the decrease in room size, is to run extra cables in the space between the breeze blocks and plasterboards to cover all eventualities. Even if I end up sepnding a few extra £100s on cables that I don't end up using I'll know that no matter what model I buy I can connect it and still keep my stealth/no wire showing set up.

In terms of upgrades, I won't be adding in anything else ie other than amp/skyHD/dvd player. I may upgrade the spec of the amp or dvd player(ie to Blu Ray for the latter) but they will all use HDMI? so as long as I have enough HDMI cables going from X to TV position I should be fine?

I appreciate that you say I should spec the stuff first. However this is now impossible. The builder wants to know early next week where I want sockets and where and which cables I want laid before he slaps the plaster boards on.

Many thanks

ScoobyDoo555

Fair enough

BluRay/HD-DVD runs with HDMI

Just make sure that the builder/sparky puts in too many sockets - use doubles rather than singles. Last thing you want is trailing sockets spoiling the area!

On the 'false wall' aspect, as it's breeze block - why not get the builder to whack a 2-3" hole behind where the TV will go an one where the access is needed to the unit/power? As there's a cavity, that can be your false wall..... Plastered up, it will look good!

Just make sure you put a cable pull in (a long/strong piece of cable to attach new cables to with duck tape - in order to pull them through) - it can be coiled up/hidden behind the TV and the unit.....

Sounds like you're nearly there! I've got 2 x bedrooms to finish before I get to look at the lounge Still, Summer's around the corner - should be out in the back garden with a beer by then. Won't need TV!

Keep us posted

Dan

paulr

Deep,

How much is the extension going to cost. Is the room you are extending on the dining room or kitchen. The reason i ask is i'd like to do something similair,ie extend the back of the house and have a larger kitchen.

On a separate note,dont you think you are going a bit ott when its not the main living room. Dont you have a good tv/av system in the main room?

Deep Singh

Hi Dan many thanks for all your help over the weekend. I think I've finally cottoned on as to how it all works now!

Paul, it sort of will be the main living room.Other room has virtually no AV. It will be semi open planned to the kitchen with big comfy sofas. Its where we will chill out most of the time as a family. The other front room will be kept for 'best'/guests ie not messy!
The size is 4mx 6.4m. If you want to know the cost pm me, but I'll bet you'll be able to get it done for cheaper where you are.

My arrangement is not the best thought out, but thats because the extension was a bit of an afterthought. I'll post some more pix.

I'm off tommorrow to buy the AV kit. I'm thinking

1) Sony 42KDL2000W ( but read something about 'clouding issues'
or Panny TH42PX70B (read about 'purple snake issues') or Sharp LC 42XDIE

2) Denon 1930 DVD player

3) Denon AVR-1507 Amp

4) Kef 1005 speaker package.

Not really high end but would probably suit my needs.

Any input appreciated though as I am a little flexible on costs ie don't want to miss out on something much better for the sake of a few quid.

Ta

Minitrue

Dan, is that an original art-deco plasma stand???

IainCam

I have a Denon AVR3803 as my main amp and it's pretty damn good IMO (although it'll be quite old now I guess). I originally was going to pair it with smaller Kef speakers (the eggs if you know what they are) but on the advice of one of my mates who knows and thing of two about AV stuff I checked out some proper full size speakers and if you have the space for them (and the wife lets you ) then it's definitely worth getting them. I went for AE Aegis ones in the end with a Velodyne Sub, gives a crackin' 7.1 setup in the living room

paulr

Deep Singh,YHPM.

thanks.

ScoobyDoo555

LOL!! Too right! It was old when I was born - 1973

It's the only thing I could find in my parent's loft to hold the TV.

It will do until the wall's built

Dan

Deep Singh

Iain, thanks and point taken so am upgrading speaker package. Now stands as

1) TV unsure but prob Sony 2000W

2) Amp Sony STR-DA1200ES

3) Denon DVP player 1930

4) Either Kef 2005.2 or Q Acoustics 1010 5.1

5) Sky HD

Dan, now that the spec is more accurate can you do away with any of the cables on the original list?

Thanks

ScoobyDoo555

will have a look tonight for ya

DAn

IainCam

The 40W2000 Sony was the one I wanted to go for as well... unfortunately the main TV in the house went on the blink at the same time as the insurance for the scoob, the summer holiday needed paid, etc so we plumped for a Toshiba 37" which I felt would do in another room if I wanted to change in a year or so's time. To tell the truth though, once we got it home and fiddled with the settings (which you will need to do on the 40W as well) I'd say it's as good as we could expect at the moment.

Maybe when HD content is more prominent the W range would look better.

bonerp

Just to throw a spanner in, Ive just bought a Samsung 87 series LCD screen and the matching surround system HTxq100. Looks very modern and sounds amazing.

Deep Singh

The Samsung HT-XQ100 won the What Hi Fi best cinema in a box, so good choice. What size is the LCD?

bonerp

Mine is 32. Goes up in larger sizes though.

The htxq100 is a very capable cinema system, great sound and bass. Have a looksie on Samsungs www.

The 87 series is a new model with built in freeview etc.

ScoobyDoo555

Deep - have a look at this.....



With the kit you're looking at you could make the cabling quite easy

Obviously, the only thing I've missed off is the aerial (for Freeview) - just plug that in as normal.

If you want this as a PDF, it's ready to go. PM if required

Dan