Abdabz

Long post so get comfy!

I'm currently going through a bit of bother over an issue with my roof. As this thread will be long enough without all the info the basis of this complaint is: Local roofer replaces next doors adjoining roof. Roofer takes up first couple of slates of my roof from top to bottom to install some "under roof guttering system". Roofer just kinda chucks my slates back so they almost look like they wont fall off the next time a sparrow farts on my chimney. I contact friendly local roofer who is now challenging the scarlet pimpernel for the world record in Hide N Seek... Legal proceedings imminent...

This got me thinking...

12 months ago I employed a local garage to diagnose an overheating issue with my runaround car... The garage did £750 of repairs without my approval... Even then the repairs were not satisfactory and it took 3 return visits and threats of legal action to resolve and halve the original invoice.

18 months ago I asked a car security company from Warrington to fit a Clifford blackjaxx to my scoob... Gave the installer access to the car and left him to it. He installed some "Alba" version of blackjaxx which was not what was ordered. After much hassle a refund followed.

I recently had UPVC fitted. All seemed to go well until I noticed a gap under a window ledge where I could see out To be fair they came out within the hour and sorted that.

It seems these days you either get unskilled knuckle dragging neanderthals, a cheesy gift of the gab conman or a former braindonor with a GNVQ in dribbling doing skilled work these days!

Now I am a bit mental, I admit, but I'm not overly fussy, dont come across as a soft touch or the kind who wont miss a few hundred so I guess it's just the state of the nation...

I might offer Matt Alwright the keys to this place for BBC's Rogue Traders

Rant over, enjoy your day

speedking

Totally agree. There are very few jobs done by tradesmen that I could not do better myself. That's why things like the new electricity regs are a pain. I now have to pay a certified tradesman to do the work, to get the certificate, so that I can then modify it to be the way it should have been done in the first place.

bobsabuilder

Just do the job yourself and then get it certified after, works out a lot cheaper than paying for a [been on a 2week training course] pro!

Moley

iTrader: (9)

I know what you mean.

My old man is a Trading Standards approved builder/decorator.
So many times he puts in an estimate for a job and gets undercut by a cowboy builder.....then the customer rings him 2 weeks later to get him to come round after all and fix the mistakes the cowboy made.

It's the old cliche that the cheapest isn't always the best

AudiLover

Let the professionals do the job, let them charge you a professionals wage and you will get a professional, and satisfactory job done.

With alot of tradesmen, I suggest before you hire them make it clear to them that you expect nothing but high quality work, it will let them know that they will have to take their time with it

POC

The cheapest quotation is never the one to go for eh! Always get a few quotes, always check their previous work, always get a list of the work to be completed in writing.

AudiLover

what guy above said, usually the good tradesmen are the ones that write everything down and generally look neat and clean shaven, and are courteous and polite. Scruffy workmen often do scruffy jobs.

Good workmen also write out contracts before work commences

bobsabuilder

whats a builder/decorator?

Is that a builder who also does a bit of decorating
or
a decorator who also does a bit of Building work?

Find a lot of them about these days and they only have mobile phone numbers on their vans for some reason

TBH I'm p!ssed off with customers wanting A1 quality work for peanuts or asking you to come and give them a quote and then spend all the time asking you how to do this or how to do that knowing full well they have no intention of paying anyone to do the work

No offence intended to you Moley or your dad, its just that where I am there's loads of "builder/decorators" sprung up undercutting decent tradesmen and doing shoddy work.

bobsabuilder

If you want quality, dig deep and you'll get it.

If a bloke turns up in a beat up old transit van DON'T expect a Rolls Royce job but DO expect change from a fiver!

If he turns up in a brand new vehicle then guess who pays for it though

List price on my Navara is over £22k and my hourly rate has to pay for it, but I believe that I do a top notch job and warranty ALL my work, even down to light bulbs.

Bob

Bram

You can also add Maggie Thatcher did the country no favours in scrapping the apprenticeship system.

Its taken till the last odd year to realise the mistake and stop this fast tracking or 6 month training regimes and no on the job practice. Though it seems very slow to recover.

100 of years to get it honed one political party to botch it. Par for the course.

Abdabz

None of the work relating to the thread purpose was done by "cheapest" quotes. All work was done by local well established "reputable" firms, known across the town...
That's one of the key issues. The days of going for the middle or top quote to assure yourself of a quality job are long gone...
Word of mouth is often a good guarantee but even thats luck of the drawer. If ABC central heating quote you top rate and your mate had his done brilliantly by them last week, it doesnt mean your job will be any good because so many companies sub contract their jobs to others...

It just seems that it's getting harder and harder to find good skilled work...

Hmmmph

AudiLover

Maybe its time you advertise yourself as a luxury builder. Be open your dearer than most but give the best possible return for their money. You might have trouble doin this though unless you live near a rich major city.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Maybe it is just you

Having had ten different trades working on our house over the past year only one has failed and he was a subcontractor of our kitchen builder. He caused over £7,000 of water damage fitting a fridge (wtf) and was successfully sued by our insurers and all the damage was put right by someone we trust and is very good. Not all of them got it right first time - but in call cases they recognised this and more than rectified their work immediately.

Take references from people like you, who have had work done like the work you want done and pay a fair price. Once you find someone who is good and you can trust use their recommendations - that is what we have done.

bobsabuilder

But thats the thing - I'm really quite reasonable, even cheap compared to some, but I have my own quality standards and I am NOT prepared to cut corners and bodge things. I want to do a job well and be proud to say "I did that" but its become near impossible to compete with cowboys who I know will do a sh!te job

The bulk of my work is from a small number of repeat clients and their families, new work is harder to come by unless you're willing to cut prices and standards, and I'm not.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

If a garage does work that you haven't approved just use the quote I was told by a local (Chief) Trading Standards Officer: "Thank you for spending your money on my car"

When they protested, the next quote: "In which case I would like the car returning to the EXACT condition it was in before you started working on it. An oil change you say? You better have MY oil ready to swap back in then."

He got the work for free.

john_s

iTrader: (1)

We turn down almost all domestic work for that reason. We rarely even price it these days; it's just a waste of time.

Johns.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

It's one of the reasons I do as much work for myself as I can. For example, I built my own conservatory, including footings, base and dwarf brick wall. I had change out of £5000 and that included everything, lights, sockets, tiling, heating, a step down to the garden, and a small patio beyond etc.

It took me 6 weeks of evenings and weekends, but a local tradesman who I know and trust, told me it would have cost me nearer £13000 from him.

I also STRONGLY agree with the post about Maggie's government wrecking the UK apprenticeship schemes, but I'd go further: Labour have NOT replaced it with anything like what is needed, and their insistance on 50% of kids going to university has left the "apprentices" we now have coming from the bottom 50% of the school population, rather than the second to top 25%. Draw your own conclusions. So called "Skilled men" from the bottom 50% of the population? Yeah, right.

It's NOT going to get better quickly, either. The standard of kids on trades courses now is, in general, abysmal.
My eldest HATED 6th form, so dropped out and went onto a welding course, which he loves. He does have 8 good GCSE's, though.
He regularly comes home and tells me of the others on his course who struggle with basic maths, and basic scientific concepts, but are going to be turned out as welders and let loose on some engineering project, somewhere.

Alcazar

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Well it is his and my brothers joint company, and my brother did a 2 year building course at college and has a folder of city & guilds certificates... aswell as 5-6 years hands on experience. And my dad has been in the game for 20+ years.

I know what you mean about the shoddy workers, but 90% of my dad/brothers work comes from recommendations anyway.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I have had my faith restored recently,

We used the same company for the patio as the driveway, three grand but you do get a good job, no fannying about with the 'for cash' thing, turned up when they said, superb job, Insett from Mere, Cheshire, bloke called Charles, a true gent. He has had lots of recomedations based on his work, what goes around comes around.

One Electrician who I contacted about connecting my shed up to the house p1ssed me about, got a recommendation off a neighbour in the building trade and he was a diamond, local, proffesional, not stupidly expensive and did more than the bare mimimum, was very helpful and knowledgeable, didnt moan about having to come back a couple of times as the job went on.

Wilmslow Glass, fitted us some windows, good quote, nealy installed, couldnt ask for more.

Bram

True about the Labour losing the plot in correcting the Conservative mishandling. The issue concerning the apprenticeship system was that it was on the job training under one to one learning, from a skilled craftsman who had gained his spurs in doing the job and training the apprentice the way he was shown, passed on like. It worked, but the bonus system in building, self employment, single man businesses, de-skilling processes and Conservatives totally buggered it.

So now we have Colleges doing 6 month courses stretched to a year, college time I mean. They have even kept the same courses that were failing to supply skill bases under the NVQ/SVQ. They just revamped them saying you need to be on the job assessed. But how can you do this if you start a college course and have no job.

Do the small one man businesses take on Apprentices in sufficient numbers or afford to let them go on block release, the past few years seems like they are not. And who do you rely on to supply skilled building tradesmen for the future, you need to employ and start now to fill the gaps in four/nine years time allowing for learning and gaining your spurs.

Now that the Labour see the problem in skill shortages the education, Colleges or Employers have moved on. The modern way is not like the old apprenticeship scheme in the case of college course or on the job learning.

Until the structure of Colleges and assessment gets it right I do not see the employers or small businesses being relied on to make it happen it does not seem in their interest to do so. They have de-skilled parts of the building process all you have to look at is B&Q sales floors full of DIY, you cannot have it all ways. Market economies are led by supply and demand.

pslewis

Bad Tradesmen are there simply because people want to pay what they charge - which undercuts the Professional who wants rewarding for his skills.

I laugh at the Pikeys who come knocking at my door every month telling me my big tree out front is diseased - and if it's not cut down RIGHT NOW it will infest everything or fall onto the house

Hand painted sign on the side of the old knicked transit??

"Tree Surgin - Fuly Ensured"
0789 2345132



My mate had this once too often and he told them they could have the job when they gave him a copy of their Public Liability Insurance ..... funny how he didn't see them again They can't read in any case!

Leslie

Could they spell Nickers, or should it be Knickers PSL, to go with Surgin thus ensuring that we know their ful qualifications?

Les

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Same here. Dad is a Corgi registered plumber and laughs at people employing these cowboys. Interesting to see House of Horrors etc and all these conmen driving swanky cars. Having enquired as to why we don't have a family Ferrari not a TDCi Mondeo estate the reply was "i don't rip people off"

He gets all his work from recommendation anyway but the adage about a fool and his money isn't far wrong.

5t.