Charlie H

Had similar experiences in my 93 wrx for the fiest few week I owned it. I then read variuos post about NOT lifting off, but keeping the power on through the bend. At first this didn't feel natural as I have always driven front wheel drive cars. However, twice since then I have had understeer on wet roundabouts and just kept my foot on the gas. The difference was very noticable. The power seemed to transfer to the back and the front just gripped again. It was a weird feeling but it worked. Since then I've not had anymore scary moments.
I don't know if what I did was correct but the car certainly doesn't snap back anymore

Scrappy2

Same happened to me only yesterday - after owning the car for over a year now - Thought I knew my/the cars limits. After finding myself sideways and the back end snapping the opposite way, applied just a dab of power and it sorted itself out. Very quick to happen and a tad disconscerting...

Gary Foster

Have had same,

Exiting a roundabout, applying full power on the exit - car goes straight on. Applied full lock and kept my foot planted, nothing just even more understeer. Didn't really know what to do as I was expecting the rear wheels to light up and the car to drift (as my previous car would do - 325i), so after a second or too of this I had no option but to lift off, getting the expected massive oversteer and me trying desparately to wind of the lock i'd just applied.

I can tell you I was not impressed by this. It's basically how a FWD car would handle, except it all happens faster and more violently (and at higher speed).

Think I'll take the front drive shafts out. It's probably me having no idea how to control this car, I do feel I've made a mistake going to AWD though, RWD seems so much more predictable.

Gary

chiark

Seems to be quite a common thing.. Mine was entering a roundabout, not exiting, so weight was on the front wheels but still no steering...


Wetter the better, here I come.

Dippy

Rob,

Quite a few of us have suffered from this so-called 'lift-off oversteer'. I seem to be the unluckiest victim - see the pictures in the gallery.

I am still nervous about it and unsure about getting an AWD car again. The Impreza's a great car, but it does take skill to drive it when you skid. I'm not sure that I have that skill, and next time I might end up looking like the dashboard!

Still - considering what Subaru have done to the MY01, the test drive might be the last time I drive an Impreza anyway!

Scrappy2

Jees, just seen those pics - at least you're ok - makes you think what if tho'...

rjc

I've had my Impreza Turbo (5dr) for about 4 months now and haven't had a chance to get it on the local skid pan or track yet. It's also my first AWD car.

I pulled quickly onto a big roundabout a few days ago and I'm not sure if it was diesel or ice, but it decided not to go round it, to my exit on the right. I got massive understeer. Unwound the steering slightly and eased off a fraction, which is difficult when the turbo has just kicked in. The front end gripped again but the back let go big time. Just managed to catch it with some opposite lock and made it round the roundabout onto my exit, just. I wasn't going at ridulous speeds but quick enough to do damage if I hit something and obviously a bit too quick for the conditions.

Does the Scooby always snap so quickly like this and is it normal behaviour or would a patch of ice/diesel cause this to happen?

In the dry I've also found that the back end will let go unexpectedly on very tight turns (<10m radius) and hop before digging in again. It's disconcerting when the back end steps out about 6" mid-corner. Huge amounts of grip but not progressive at all. Have not experienced this on flatter corners though, just get balanced 4-wheel drift. Is this a 4WD feature?

Finally, if you lock the wheels braking hard on slippery surfaces, is it better to push the clutch in? Doing this seems to give me much more control and feedback from the steering. The ABS also seems to be more effective.

Rob C

PS. Also managed to get stuck in a field at the weekend. AWD is OK but you need AWD tyres when you're in 4 inches of mud. Managed to rock it out and reverse out onto safer ground eventually.

chiark

I too have had the massive understeer effect on a roundabout which was simply unbelievable. Coming off the M69 at coventry on the A4600, the car just wanted to go straight on at around 30 mph. Wound off a bit of steering, not a lot happened, backed off slightly, back didn't step out at all and cornering started.

My conclusion was that there must have been some serious crap on the road. Very unnerving, for me and my passengers.

If you lift off, you can expect snap oversteer though I've only had it once and caught it - thankfully.

AndrewW

I've had my MY99 5 door turbo for two weeks now.

I had the scariest driving moment of my life yesterday, coming around a wet, sweeping left hander at the posted limit of 60 mph.

All of a sudden, there was a bank of traffic right in front of me!

I stamped on the brake and clutch simultaneously, all the while deciding if I should head for the other side of the road if I could not stop in time.

I pulled up about 2 inches from the bumper of the car in front and about six inches onto the opposite side of the road.

First time I have ever felt the ABS work (driven ABS enabled cars for the last 3 years).

All I can say is hoorah for the handling of the Impreza!

rjc

Dippy,

Nasty pictures. Glad you weren't too badly hurt. At least you are still alive. I guess we are both lucky in that respect. Badly crashed my Elise last year. Walked away from £11k5 worth of damage with just a scratch. My brother wasn't quite so lucky though, a few stitches in his head.

I deliberately didn't lift off this time though, only maybe a fraction to get front end grip back. Having experimented in the car and read previous postings I was aware of what can happen under power lift-off. Been there and played with it. It's also how I crashed my Elise (foot slipped off throttle when back went airborn mid uphill bend then touched down again = 720 degree spin with three impacts).

I had to put more power back on to catch the back end. What surprised me was the violence of it though. An empty 5dr is not that unbalanced weight-wise. Mind you, the characteristics of the turbo don't exactly help with precise throttle control.

I guess some more play/practice is in order on wider pieces of tarmac and under more varied conditions.

I guess the old adage about entering a corner at a speed you can be sure you can sustain through it, holds true. I learnt that much in my Elise. Slow in, fast out.

Can anyone answer my question about hard, straight line braking on slippery/gravel surfaces? Should I press the clutch in?

Rob C.

Jye

Braking while depressing the clutch pedal is no-no. Lets face it, you are effectively coasting without any engine braking, when engine braking is one of 'the' plus points with AWD. You also have no access to instant (possibly life saving) acceleration as the engine revs will have dropped to zero and you will most likely be in too high a gear anyway.

[This message has been edited by Jye (edited 17 November 2000).]

Darren Thompson

I had the same problem of the understeer on Monday night, I kept my foot in and it sorted itself out, you never lift when in a slide in an AWD car it's fatal as the photos show.

logiclee

If the front end starts to understeer don't wind on more lock as this increases the slip angle of the front tyres and increases understeer. If at this point you lift off weight is transfered to the fronts which will start to turn in, you will then have to wind off lock reducing the slip angle and thus increasing front grip further. By this time the front has dug in totaly and the lightened back end will be overtaking you, ie "Lift off oversteer".

If you haven't already have a look at the

mattski

it sounds like an advanced driving course is the order of the day. I haven't had any really hairy moments yet, although I have had the back end out a *little* and some understear, especially on roundabouts.

The prospect of loosing it big time and wrecking either the car or myself is worrying, perhaps we would get a good deal somewhere if a few of us went?


[This message has been edited by mattski (edited 17 November 2000).]

Kevin2000

The thing about the Impreza turbo is that because the suspension is so stiff in lowish speed tight corners if you give it a fair bit of lock they do tend to plough on straight where as my non turbo Impreza will lean over a lot but maintain 4 wheel grip. After driving the MYO1 over the last few weeks it doesnt seem to have this understeering characteristic of previous generation turbos.

Craig H

This may seem like I'm on my high horse, but, you ever thought of slowing down a bit? Or driving according to the conditions or limits of yourself/your car?

Just a thought........

merlin

Given my off road hedge experience yesterday, maybe on public roads we should drive well within the limits. The problem is you never know what's round the next corner. Yesterday it was an oil slick. In May it was some lunatic overtaking a 38 tonner on double white lines, uphill, in the rain, on a blind corner and driving a school minibus. The scoob survived yesterday but my Golf back in May wasn't so lucky.

BTW, Rob C, thanks for a great web site. It was very useful when I imported my car from Holland.

[This message has been edited by merlin (edited 18 November 2000).]

mattski

Craig...point taken.

BUT... merlin has a point, you don't know what is around the corner. Lets face it the Impreza is a fast car, most of us bought one for that very reason. I defy anyone to say that they don't drive it quickly sometimes.

A classic example of not knowing what is around the corner was earlier tonight in Coventry. I came off a roundabout at a perfectly normal speed. To my horror a fool in a knackered old Renault 5 was coming at me head-on, overtaking a car on my side of the road, at a roundabout junction!

Luckily I managed to avoid it but it also made me think more about the advanced driving course. Basically it wouldn't have taken much more for it to be a really nasty situation, I feel knowing some techniques would definately help in that event.

My comments re: the driving course where said with the point being that we as a group would possibly be able to learn more about the car and, perhaps more importantly, more about ourselves.

Scooby Doc

Rob
Ditto!
First moment I had was in the dry after having had the car a few weeks only. Came round a sharp right hand bend accelerating hard as I used to do in my Golf and lifted off and braked simultaneously - all things which you are not supposed to do but in the Golf going slower there was a bit more time for the car to settle before the braking for the next corner. Had a big tank slapper and nearly hit a parked car. Underpants were complete right off but the best bit was my boss and his fiancee were in the car at the time. They thought it was deliberate - muttered something about car control.

The next time was on a wet roundabout, got understeer, lifted off and back ens snapped. caught it but sure wakes you up.

Went round the Nurburgring in September to try and explore the limits a bit off public roads - well it is actually a public road but you know what I mean. Completely wet, masses of understeer, had done 3 blind crested off camber corners, when I found a BMW 5 series on its roof.

went very slowly after that!

Saw the MY01 on testing though. Had the "prodrive style" front lights. Salmon pink it was. Mmmmm not sure.

Martin

BarryK

Your wizardship, thanks for this link. Doesn't matter who, the basic premise remains true. I think Craig has it right.

To cut a long story short,I am amazed that anybody who has been issued with a driving licence can come out with statements like "perhaps we should drive more carefully and look where we are going", and consider that as some sort of eye opening discovery to be recommended.

Good grief!

merlin

merlin will do. Anyway, where did you get that quote. I did a search using 'perhaps drive carefully' as keywords and this was the only thread that came up.

gizmo71

You might want to consider raising the rear tyre pressures a bit. IMHO the recommended rear pressures are too low and tend to cause the rear to grip... grip... grip... and then suddenly let go. I found that raising the pressures a bit reduces the amount of grip available slightly but makes the back end let go much more progressively.

Sits back and waits for groans of "<I>oh no not another tyre pressure thread</I>".

[This message has been edited by gizmo71 (edited 23 November 2000).]

chuckster

The one compelling arguement for Toyo's I've heard is exactly that gizmo, less grip than SO2's with more progressive breakaway - so same result as running higher pressure in rears.
Chuck

Branners

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jye:
<B>Braking while depressing the clutch pedal is no-no. Lets face it, you are effectively coasting without any engine braking, when engine braking is one of 'the' plus points with AWD. You also have no access to instant (possibly life saving) acceleration as the engine revs will have dropped to zero and you will most likely be in too high a gear anyway.

[This message has been edited by Jye (edited 17 November 2000).][/quote]

but wouldnt it be safe to say that engine braking would eventually turn into engine 'push'. Stick the car in 5th and try slowing down to a stop from 40mph and you will feel the car push until it eventually stalls the engine. Last thing you want is additional push when you are emergency braking?

Somebody correct me if Im wrong please..

JB