madras

We've just received planning permission for an extention (Bedroom, Ensuite & Study) over our existing garage.

I've never had to deal with builders before so would be grateful for any top tips, pitfalls to avoid or any good advice.

1) I'd be interested in what kind of percentages you guys would pay up front and once certain areas of work are complete?

2) If deadlines aren't met what financial repercussion could I impose?

3) On completion should I keep back a percentage of the final payment for a short while to ensure any possible teething problems are resolved?

Any other info/advice would be very helpful.

Cheers

madras

The Chief

1. i'd say only 20-30% or whatever just to cover materials - i personally in the past have never stumped anything up front - however i have never had a job this big.

2. Obviously give a little - most will run over , just as long as they dont take the p***.

3. Yep i'd keep 20% as a retainer for a couple of month and when you are 100% satisfied then pay the full amount.


Apppologies to builders if my percentages are out

DCI Gene Hunt

15% for materials, although a decent builder will have an account anyway. You'll struggle to get one willing to take on financial penalties, and he'll just increase his original costs to cover these, so you'll end up paying anyway.

A final snag / defect list should be 5 - 8%, that's all, with a time cut off, so if the work isn't done you can get it done with the money retained.

HTH

Coffin Dodger

Yep, make sure they get plenty of tea and biscuits, that they wear jeans that show plenty of bum cleavage, and whistle / make sexist comments about every woman walking along the street

madras

Thanks guys for the quick replies.

madras

Diesel

Maybe tie it in with an independent surveyor's sign off - so as it objectively re-assures him as well as you?

Best tip is get a recomendation - not a Yellow Pages punt.

D

LG John

I'm nearing the end of the process of redeveloping my flat. I feel I've been able to get value at every stage of the process except dealing with workmen. People will recommend guys to you and claim they are 'good mates' and he'll give you a good deal, etc. But unless the tradesman is your very best mate or family you can be sure they will do anything to screw you. Every single one of them is at it!!

Make sure you agree EVERYTHING including very unlikely outcomes in a written agreement. Leave nothing to chance and no stone uncovered. If they don't agree to your terms find someone who will. Give then half a chance and they will look up the excuse book to cause delay or extract some extra money from you.

David Lock

Who drew up the plans for you?

They may supervise the work for you for a fee. But might be money well invested. dl

HowieG

Get a recommendation form someone you know and trust. Go and see two of their projects - don't just take someone else's word for it. find out what their policy is on extra's - some of us don't go mad in this area.

All bone fide builders will get all standard materials on account. A deposit should not be necessary.

Depending on the project, I expect a payment when I commence. This depends on what commitments I have made, ie for a loft conversion, on day one, no work has been carried out but fabricated steel is delivered, large del. of timber and scaffold already erected. Other projects such as an extension, would be paid in stages starting after a week.

Personally, I don't work for clients who wish to impose liquidated damages (charges for over running). I'll make my best effort to do a quality job in good time.

As for retention (3% usually), I also won't work under these conditions, unless I am able to price the risk that the Client may not pay up. I would add 3% to the job cost in these circumstances!

Find the right builder, make sure he is making money, don't get ahead with the payments, get the design right and it should all be fine.

If it does fall apart, find yourself a surveyor (Building or Quantity) to sort it out. Don't just hand over further sums if you are not sure.

Finally, expect one person to 'own the job'. Don't be tempted to bring in your own subbies to save money.

Good luck

Howard

john_s

iTrader: (1)

As I've just posted in another thread, the company I work for doesn't really do domestic work, but I'll put some input in anway.

1: We'd not ask for anything to be paid up front. We ask for monthly payments based on the value of the work done. If you ask the builder for a breakdown of his costs - even just into rough items (foundations, floor slab, brickwork, etc) - it will help you to assess whether the valuation he's asking for each month is genuine or not.

2: If you ask for liquidated damages, you can expect the contractor to charge more to cover this. The figure should be a genuine cost that you would be out of pocket as a result of the contractor's failure to finish on time and not just some value made up to penalise the contractor.

3: Typcal retentions we work to are 3% and 5% (occasionally 10%). That is deducted off each payment. It's usual for retention to be halved at practical completion, and the remainder paid either 6 or 12 months after practical completion.

There's a standard JCT contract for domestic work (no personal experience with it) which will set out who is responsible for what. That would be worth considering. It's important to have the contract in writing, as that makes it easier to enforce if thing do turn sour.

HTH.

John.

moses

be careful bud and def dont deal wae irish pikeys

i got stinged for 10k and they done a crap job, i didnt know they woz pikeys but irish and trusted them

and then i needed some house work done i spent 25k i wish i had been smart enuff i trusted this guy , he woz local and he woz a fellow muslim but not british born he told me come on i aint gonna run away and he said trust me im a muslim, well he hired asylum seekers tae dae the house the b@stard and everything came apart and i tried tae chase him up and he moved tae england but he came back, well he is hiding i got his partner and knee capped him and he is hiding but if i find him, God willing im gonna dae him in nasty style

i got a russian guy tae fix it, God bless the russians, fecking awesome people and i swear, a honest person and a brilliant worker

stick wae the russians or a professional company

paulwrxboro

i did it like this
founds 2k
first window 2k
second window 2k
roof leval 2k
roof 3k
inside floors ect 3k
then 5k on finish


he wanted to walk away i think but couldent because he hadent made anything on the job,he asked for more money and i said no, not till you reach the next leval
the job was nice and he got paid as he fitted the last bit of skirting

Old Farquar

One thing I'd say is don't make the final payment to your builder before you've had the completion certificate from your Building Control surveyor. You'll need that when you come to sell the property. I go to a fair few jobs a few years after they've been finished, generally when the property is on the point of being sold, to find there are some fairly significant items that haven't been done, or not done correctly.
As the builder is by then long gone, there's only one person left to stump up the costs of the works... and it isn't the builder!

richardg

1) nothing. any professional building contractor should not have a problem with this. you could either agree staged payments or monthly valuations. check what is requested each month and keep a detailed record of percentage claimed against each element of the works
2) "liquidated ascertained damages" - look it up on the web. i wouldn;t stress about this too much if i were you. bit different if you were building a 10,000 sq ft retail store though. alternatively, you could consider a "bonus" if they finish within a certain timescale. that is more likely to have an effect on performance than the threat of LADs
3) 5% retention is the norm. usually for a minimum of 6 months

make sure you have a written agreement for the works - and accept that if you're going to do this properly, then it won;t be as cheap as the neighbour who paid a mate cash to do his extension.

don;t get too wound up during the work either! there are bound to be inconveniences - that's life!

madras

Great advice.

Thanks for all your input, I'll have another good read of your comments and come back with any other questions.

madras

Bakerman

Our extension is due to start in April and the simple answer to your questions is for me

1 - we are paying nothing up front and yet to agree at what point we pay. I will be going for something like once the foundations are done, once the shell is done, once the inside is done and then a 10% when the extension is signed off
2 - we haven't got any ! The builder has done a lot of local work so was felt unnecessary, builders will never hit deadlines anyway. Slightly different if you are using a builder nobody local has heard of.
3 - yep, as already said I will be aiming to keep 10%, roughly £5k.

Our is quite informal at the moment and based on numerous meetings we have had. I am now just getting everything he expects to be doing written down to make sure it agrees with our understanding ............... our build is pretty simple so shouldn't be a problem.