auto scooby

Practical advice please.

Work commenced on a loft conversion 9th November, contract states 21 days for completion.

67 elapsed day later (48 working days not inclusing xmas holidays) and the works have progressed to somewhere near 15% completion.

We have had no builders attend the house since 8th December.

The builder is blaming poor weather, my position is that it should come as no suprise that we are getting rain in winter.

The builder does not return my calls until I have left about half a dozen messages.

Every promise or commitment given he has failed to deliver.

Any guidance very much appreciated.

David Lock

1) Have you paid him anything yet? Deposit perhaps?

2) Is he a member of any trade association or anything - see his letterhead.

3) Trading standards may have him on a list if he often lets people down. Worth a call.

4) Is his company close enough to call and see him?

Does he speak English?

turboman786

I feel for you mate, Ive gone through similar with Plumbers, end result is I hate the dirty little robbing chavs with a vengeance....

Hopefully youve not paid anything up front, I think you need to give them an ultimatum via a solicitors letter that either they complete the work without further delay, or lese you will consider the contract has been broken by them, get someone else to complete the job, and take them through thecivil courts for the cost of the remedial work....a long haul, but ultimately it may have to be done.

john_s

iTrader: (1)

It's difficult to say exactly what the position is without knowing the details of the contract being used. (I'd presume something like the JCT Domestic Works contract - which I have no experience with).

The commercial JCT contracts typically allow for an extension of time to be granted for poor weather (I think the wording may be "excessively inclement weather" - I've not got a JCT to hand to check).

There are some work items that cannot be done in certain weather conditions (eg rain) for safety reasons.

That said, however, I'd suggest that your builder is taking the P***. I don't believe there has been that much poor weather recently that could have delayed progress by *that* much.

If you haven't been doing so already, begin recording the weather each day, along with the time and outcome of any phone calls you make to the builder.

Assuming he is working to a formal contract, I would expect there to be a clause requiring him to proceed with the works in a timely manner. If you can show that he hasn't been (eg, records of weather as above), he will be in breach of contract.

I'd suggest a letter to his office (and the registered office if it's a Ltd company) by registered post, telling him that if he does not resume his performance of the contract, the contract will be terminated.

(Not a legal person, so the above is no substitute for legal advice. However, feel free to PM / post more if you've any further questions).

HTH.

John.

DAVE-W

What John says regarding the inclement weather clause in a contract is quite correct.

However......with work commencing on 9th November, your builder should have accounted for the fact that he was very likely to encounter our typical British weather at this time of year.....the contract period IMO should have reflected this. I don't think this Winter has been exceptionally "adverse" compared to recent years.

At pre-contract meetings I (Architect) always advise Contractors if in my opinion their proposed Contract period is a little optimistic for this time of year!

What form of contract are you using? I would have thought it would be a JCT Minor Works Contract for a loft conversion?

If at all possible, it is always better to try to resolve the issues with your builder WITHOUT getting Contractual.......it really is a pain in the proverbial backside m8.

Failing that of course, you can pm me with more details if you like and I can have a flick through a copy of the contract if I have a similar one in the office

Dave

(edited to say I think I've just concluded by saying pretty much what John said anyway!!! )

auto scooby

Thanks very much for those comments.

I issued a letter out to them in December at the point at which they had breached their contract on number of days to complete. I gave them a reasonable time in which to complete the work. (End of January). I have paid them a deposit as all of the materials including 4 dormer windows are all on site here. (I have a large double garage).

The flooring is complete and all scaffolding is still erected. However that is it. The floor took about 14 days for them to complete even though they were dependant on the weather. The chippies that were constructing the floor were forever being called away onto other jobs.

The contract is a bespoke contract based on the scope of works as agreed including detailed plans. Also included is a ways of working agreement.

The builder is a fairly large concern and was taken on a recomendation of a close neighbour (we watched the conversion happening).

I am assuming that the builder has gottem himself into a right pickle, the really galling thing however is I gave the builder the opportunity to postpone the works for 3 months if he could not comit a dedicated team to the job.

I have spoken today and he claims that he is bringing the scaffolders back to complete a canopy across the top of the property so that he can work in poor weather.

Not confident myself.

I have a speadsheet log of each days events detailed since Nov 9th. He is correct with the weather it has been grim, however there have been opportunities to progress, he has been on other jobs however on these occassions.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Get someone else (2 or 3 quotes) to quote to finish the job. Tell the builder that he's taken too long & you'll be getting someone else in to complete. 21 days is 21 days & he's way over that so is in breach of Contract or the verbal agreement. Get someone else in to finish. I'd recommend going to a Contractor that is known by friends or colleagues rather than a "stranger" that way you have some evidence of having already done a good job.

I'm in the industry BTW

TX.

Smiler

21 days I know how guys have to work to be able to do that.

I know because we had a loft conversion, with full dormer, completed in 19 days Team of 5 worked 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Towards the end they were going to do other jobs but 2 men were always left onsite. We weren't informed of this but at the beginning of the job the foreman said 3 weeks and towards the end said they'ld be finished early.

You need a meeting with the builder and you should do everything possible not to fall out with them as it's not worth the aggro. Stay calm.

Large concern means they should have an office. So go there

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Why is it so bad to "fall out" with them They've not done what they said they would do therefore get shot of them.

TX.

Chrisgr31

The weather has not been that bad for a winter! Certainly not enough to delay it that much. My boss has had his whole roof taken off, and being rebuilt, and they are ahead of schedule on that!

I would go and see them, or at least try and find out where they have gone. Who is paying for the scaffolding?

I would agree that you get other builders in to quote for the job After all if they know the original contracor they might caqll him and ask why its not finished, that will show him you mean business.

Sounds like other jobs are taking priority after yours, you want to stop that!

Seamaster

Next time...skip the English mob and go and fine a good Polish team. far better workers and very honest

I am not to bothered about the silly replies, the English builders etc are too lazy and cheats. The majority of th ePoles ar efar superior. Look at the best jobs been done in London. then tell me different.

auto scooby

Good point on the polish builders.

My work colleague has just had a kitchen extension completed by polish and croatian workers. Sweated for 14 hours a day on the job and finished exactly on time and to budget (which was stupidly cheap). Quality of the workmanship was only slightly above average but commitment to get the job done was second to none.

I don't have the confidence to use migrant workers, although I am wishing that I had now.

I will never use an english building firm again ever.

The Zohan

bit of a sweeping statement, not all firms are like the one you encountered, even a reccommendation can go wrong as you have found to your cost.

You just have to get on with it, find another comany who you trust to finish the work

auto scooby

Well after another half day wasted playing spot the builder I am inclined to stick by my statement.

Had a long conversation with a neighbour this lunchtime who has bought a property adjacent to his and is turning the whole property around so that it faces into his land. Roof, all internals switched around 180 degrees.

Solely project managed and built using migrant workers and jesus, I cannot believe how quickly the project is being completed. Floodlights are running of a generator so that works can commence around 7.00 in the morning through until 7.00 in the evening.

I am fed up and jealous.

Smiler

Shame that as they aren't permitted to start until 8am.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

AS.

Hard message - stop complaining & do something about it! They are taking the p*ss & you're letting them get away with it! I think that they see you as a soft touch so will continue to take the p*ss. As above, get other quotes, pay them what they are due then tell them to get lost.

TX.

Seamaster

at least they start...the lazy british builders are off down the cafe round about then. The Polish are the best thing to happen to the industry

There are 1000's of them training to pass all the qualifications and learning english ready to come over and work for a company that will knock "pimlico Plumbers" right off the map (YOu have to be in london to understand this)

the vans are ready the flats bought to house them. I get to see the very very top end private sites. most of th eworkers are Polish and they Police themselves well. if one drinks too much they get rid of him straight away as they ase too scared of losing their jobs. They are mainly legal (which means more than most British guy who have been Cash in hand for years)


I hear the "crying" most days from the Uk lads....bitching about the Poles. well wake up lads, your time is up,


Anyone thinking about having work done should find a good Polish team. you stand far far far far far less chance of been ripped off.