lozgti

Like or loath him,most of what he says I agree with.

Why should every kid go to University when
a) most of them are thick
b)It is only helping the governments fake unemployment figures (same as the propsed school till 18 suggestion)
c)We end up with hundreds of thousands of chocolate teapot graduates

I think apprenticeships are the way forward.We have lost loads of trades because of a really bad education policy that makes every kid think it is a paperwork genius.

Well not everyone is.Stop skiving for three years and let the cream go to Uni,not the whole bottle of milk (and hopefully we would have less people using the word 'cool' then as well )

Cipher

Agreed thickos shouldn't go to University and most of them haven't.

ScoobyDoo555

In general, Degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on now. Because so many have been "issued", the whole thing has been devalued. The addition of pointless degrees hasn't helped either.

My personal opinion of Mr Oliver is irrelevant, but he is correct about apprenticeships.

Yes, everybody deserves the right to go to Uni. This doesn't mean that everybody should.

Too many professionals do not a great economy make

Dan

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes, but apprenticeships in what? Thanks to this and moreso the previous government manufacturing has almost become a dirty word in the UK. A nation of shopkeepers indeed.

KiwiGTI

I'm sure it does in an advanced service based economy such as ours.

But I agree with the university thing, it should be for the intellectually elite who will go on the be real specialists and possibly advance their relative subject areas.

wrx-ian

The goverment should push apprenticeships as much as university courses.
I never went to a uni and it has never done me any harm. Think i`m the highest earner out of all my of friends.
Most of them went to uni and i`d say 75% of those struggled to find regular employment for years.
Also the skill levels in traditional engineering trades are going downhill in this country. We are quickly becoming a service industry country.

KiwiGTI

Nursing/Midwifery/Photography (most creative arts) / IT etc

KiwiGTI

But the is the natural cycle of an economy - in theory if we start manufacturing stuff again we are going backwards. Our focus should be on providing services and intellectual stuff such as research and design.

Matteeboy

The UK economy has completely changed and is now a nation of service and finance professionals who make up a huge chunk of the national GDP.

Why train in manufacturing when it can be done better and cheaper abroad?
Sure it's a shame it's gone but times move on.

Most of these service jobs need a graduate - Someone who has demonstrated that they can think a bit.

My degree was only of use in one job (Materials Engineering - Useful when I did Geotec engineering) but it's more a case of showing reasoning and a bit of logical thought.

However some degrees do take the pi55 a bit.

PeteBrant

There is nothing wrong with encouraging people to go to university. Aside from employment issues, there is no doubt having a better educated society would be beneficial. It's not all about what job you can get at the end of it.

However, of course the more you put through university, the more devalued a degree becomes. Companies will still look for the top 20% of graduates - Rather than accepting a 2.1, they will want a first. The bar jusr raises according to the pool of available people.

The problem is that eople go through university and end up jobless because they aren't in that top percentage, at which point they go and take on an apprenticeship, which they could have done 4 years previously.

As an aspiration though, looking have all school leavers go into university is no bad thing.

KiwiGTI

I disagree. That is not the primary purpose of universities and flooding them with everyone will just put pressure on them.

Surely whatever people do after school should be preparing them for a job. Degrees have traditionally been academic, rather than training people for jobs (with the exclusion of some courses such as medicine)

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

University is an education in life that should be enjoyed by everyone.

I have found though as a general rule the 'piece of paper' is only any use if it involved some sort of placement.

fitzscoob

90% of the time its not better, just cheaper.

This is the biggest reason why manufacturing is dieing in the UK, its commonsense, you wouldnt pay £10k for a lcd tv because it was made in the UK when you can buy the same one for £2k imported from the far east.

In ten years time or so we will be a country of desk jockeys, and have no production skills whatsoever.

bugsti

I agree with the original poster.

Have you noticed the number of phd's there are now.

Today's phd is probably worth as much as a BSc was 20 years ago.

Bring back apprenticeships and shut down the mickey mouse university courses.
There is even a degree in aromatherapy!

KiwiGTI

[quote=fitzscoob;6549943]90% of the time its not better, just cheaper.

This is the biggest reason why manufacturing is dieing in the UK, its commonsense, you wouldnt pay £10k for a lcd tv because it was made in the UK when you can buy the same one for £2k imported from the far east.
quote]

Fact is that the far east electronic companies are the best as well though.

PeteBrant

That is exactly what the primary purpose of university is - To educate - Not to secure jobs later in life.

PeteBrant

That's not necessarily true. The Far east has cheaper proceses for sure, and expertise in relible solid mass production. However, the UK has some excellent design engineers, and also some world leading more niche/high quality brands.

fitzscoob

[QUOTE=KiwiGTI;6550043]
They are insofar as they have the money available for R & D whereas most manufacturers in this country do not have the available capital to invest.

Leslie

I think you will find that most people look on university education as a means to a better job in life.

It is a particularly stupid idea to think that everyone should attend a university. That was yet another vote catching and empty soundbite! It does not suit everyone and many people do far better by either learning a trade or finding their own way in life without a degree behind them. I agree that higher education should be for those who are genuinely suited to it and that it should refer to the kind of job they want to do. It is an awful waste of time and money for those who are not suited to it.

I think that basic school education should have some real attention paid to it anyway. Lowering standards as we know has happened has done no one a favour, not even the government because we are not so silly as not to realise what has been happening. The real pointer to that is the number of school leavers who are unable to express themselves either in speech or by the written word. Nor can they cope with maths etc. It is an eye opener when you hear of freshers having to have a special course of extra education to qualify themselves to actually start a degree course. How ridiculous is that!

It is regrettable to see what we have come to all in the cause of more votes and gross incompetence in action as well as shameful fiddling of the results!

Les

PeteBrant

One of the main benefits of a good education is of course, employment. However, that is not the be all and end all. Having an educated society has all sorts of secondary benefits, both on a personal level and society as a whole.