Muslims and Christmas
#1
Muslims and Christmas
I'm 24 so I'm only young, but in my life I've seen a stupid amount of changes in the way people act and think.
Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?
I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.
I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.
In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!
Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !
Merry Christmas
Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?
I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.
I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.
In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!
Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !
Merry Christmas
#2
Scooby Regular
Originally Posted by pimmo2000
I'm 24 so I'm only young, but in my life I've seen a stupid amount of changes in the way people act and think.
Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?
I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.
I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.
In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!
Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !
Merry Christmas
Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?
I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.
I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.
In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!
Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !
Merry Christmas
Personally, I celebrate everything, Idd, Diwali, Christmas etc..............
#3
Let's be honest though, not once have I ever heard a Muslim complain about Xmas.
The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
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if thats your proof then great. i am glad you feel happy about it . it might take a bit more than one crimbo card to convince me.
having said that Happy christmas to all.
having said that Happy christmas to all.
#6
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Let's be honest though, not once have I ever heard a Muslim complain about Xmas.
The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
I work with a muslim and he honestly couldn't care less what people do for christmas, infact he often helps out willingly to decorate our office etc for Christmas. If anything he gets just annoyed about all of this 'can't do this, can't do that' rubbish as much as anyone else.
Merry Christmas everyone.
#7
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Bah Humbug
My mate who's muslim celebrates everything.. he knows more about xmas that all the muslim celebrations.. all he knows is he gets money from his relatives what seems like every other week for some celebration or other
My mate who's muslim celebrates everything.. he knows more about xmas that all the muslim celebrations.. all he knows is he gets money from his relatives what seems like every other week for some celebration or other
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It's the 'political correctness' socialists and their agendas that constantly draw attention to these things and create issues where there were none previously.
Even today we see this in action at the highest level:
BBC NEWS | UK | Christmas attack 'highly likely'
It really is pitiful.
Even today we see this in action at the highest level:
BBC NEWS | UK | Christmas attack 'highly likely'
It really is pitiful.
#11
Originally Posted by unclebuck
It's the 'political correctness' socialists and their agendas that constantly draw attention to these things and create issues where there were none previously.
#12
Most Muslims are decent folk who are quite happy with any kind of celebration, I can't imagine many , really expect to live here and object to the incumbent populations enjoyment, even if they are hell bent on converting us, they may as well get used to the current set up as it will take a while !
I think most of the friction is propaganda by extemists from both sides, like any average you need to take off the highest and the lowest values to get a true picture.
I think most of the friction is propaganda by extemists from both sides, like any average you need to take off the highest and the lowest values to get a true picture.
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Let's be honest though, not once have I ever heard a Muslim complain about Xmas.
The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
#15
Originally Posted by powerman1
would you complain when you can charge double time rates in your taxi for something you dont believe in
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There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Muslim religion, or what is written in the Koran. It is not incompatible with Christianity. What is wrong is the distortion read into it by radical clerics with an unholy agenda. (The Bible is far from immune form this, either.)
But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.
The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.
It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.
So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it
Richard.
PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars
The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess
But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.
The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.
It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.
So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it
Richard.
PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars
The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess
Last edited by Hoppy; 12 December 2006 at 01:54 AM.
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Originally Posted by Einstein RA
mince pies......I'll be having some of them at the Christmas
do!
do!
#18
It's funny. When we lived in Bahrain before, my dad got a christmas card from one of the sheikhs, but I don't think the sheikh got it completey right...it reads something like
'to my darling, merry christmas, love....lieutenant colonel sheikh isa bin hamad al khalifa'... (not the right name, but something like that)
'to my darling, merry christmas, love....lieutenant colonel sheikh isa bin hamad al khalifa'... (not the right name, but something like that)
#19
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Originally Posted by Hoppy
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Muslim religion, or what is written in the Koran. It is not incompatible with Christianity. What is wrong is the distortion read into it by radical clerics with an unholy agenda. (The Bible is far from immune form this, either.)
But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.
The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.
It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.
So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it
Richard.
PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars
The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess
But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.
The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.
It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.
So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it
Richard.
PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars
The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess
Anyway well said that man
It all boils down to the same thing as Africa, and Ireland for that matter, namely: Tribal culture, and who are we or the yanks to say they are wrong, when you look at the toilet our democratically elected governments are happily flushing us down
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Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
I find it strange that the muslim taxi drivers find time to charge double time at the end of the year... why? "It's Christmas mate"
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Originally Posted by Dracoro
Why do you find it strange? jebus is one of the Prophets in Islam, jebus died so that Mohammed could make some money at chrimbo time.
#25
Originally Posted by Kyl3cook
It's funny. When we lived in Bahrain before, my dad got a christmas card from one of the sheikhs, but I don't think the sheikh got it completey right...it reads something like
'to my darling, merry christmas, love....lieutenant colonel sheikh isa bin hamad al khalifa'... (not the right name, but something like that)
'to my darling, merry christmas, love....lieutenant colonel sheikh isa bin hamad al khalifa'... (not the right name, but something like that)
#26
Originally Posted by Hoppy
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Muslim religion, or what is written in the Koran. It is not incompatible with Christianity. What is wrong is the distortion read into it by radical clerics with an unholy agenda. (The Bible is far from immune form this, either.)
But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.
The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.
It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.
So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it
Richard.
PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars
The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess
But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.
The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.
It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.
So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it
Richard.
PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars
The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess
#28
Originally Posted by Bullitt_Rich
Aren't they even trying to get an investigation into whether Mince Pies are dangerous?! ?!
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Originally Posted by pimmo2000
I'm 24 so I'm only young, but in my life I've seen a stupid amount of changes in the way people act and think.
Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?
I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.
I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.
In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!
Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !
Merry Christmas
Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?
I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.
I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.
In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!
Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !
Merry Christmas
Its just a shame some people spoil it on both parties
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Originally Posted by powerman1
would you complain when you can charge double time rates in your taxi for something you dont believe in