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Old 10 December 2006, 08:08 PM
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Default Muslims and Christmas

I'm 24 so I'm only young, but in my life I've seen a stupid amount of changes in the way people act and think.

Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?

I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.

I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.

In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!

Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !

Merry Christmas
Old 10 December 2006, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pimmo2000
I'm 24 so I'm only young, but in my life I've seen a stupid amount of changes in the way people act and think.

Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?

I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.

I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.

In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!

Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !

Merry Christmas
Defo !

Personally, I celebrate everything, Idd, Diwali, Christmas etc..............
Old 10 December 2006, 08:22 PM
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Let's be honest though, not once have I ever heard a Muslim complain about Xmas.

The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
Old 10 December 2006, 08:24 PM
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if thats your proof then great. i am glad you feel happy about it . it might take a bit more than one crimbo card to convince me.

having said that Happy christmas to all.
Old 10 December 2006, 08:31 PM
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I have sent and received Christmas cards for years, they have pride of place on my fireplace.
Old 10 December 2006, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Let's be honest though, not once have I ever heard a Muslim complain about Xmas.

The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
Exactly!!! Its not the other races/religions that complain about Christmas (except the extremists), its the 'do-gooders' of the country interferring in things that normally no other religious group gives a crap about! The sooner these peoples are put in a hole and buried the better. They're the sort of people that will gladly roll over let this country go to the dogs!

I work with a muslim and he honestly couldn't care less what people do for christmas, infact he often helps out willingly to decorate our office etc for Christmas. If anything he gets just annoyed about all of this 'can't do this, can't do that' rubbish as much as anyone else.

Merry Christmas everyone.
Old 10 December 2006, 08:37 PM
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Bah Humbug

My mate who's muslim celebrates everything.. he knows more about xmas that all the muslim celebrations.. all he knows is he gets money from his relatives what seems like every other week for some celebration or other
Old 10 December 2006, 08:39 PM
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It's the 'political correctness' socialists and their agendas that constantly draw attention to these things and create issues where there were none previously.

Even today we see this in action at the highest level:

BBC NEWS | UK | Christmas attack 'highly likely'

It really is pitiful.
Old 10 December 2006, 08:41 PM
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Aren't they even trying to get an investigation into whether Mince Pies are dangerous?! I mean really WTF?!?!
Old 10 December 2006, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullitt_Rich
Aren't they even trying to get an investigation into whether Mince Pies are dangerous?! I mean really WTF?!?!

I'll be having some of them at the Christmas do!
Old 10 December 2006, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
It's the 'political correctness' socialists and their agendas that constantly draw attention to these things and create issues where there were none previously.
It's the medias fault, they give these people far too much 'airtime'. I wish they would sometimes just talk to the silent majority more often!
Old 10 December 2006, 09:17 PM
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Most Muslims are decent folk who are quite happy with any kind of celebration, I can't imagine many , really expect to live here and object to the incumbent populations enjoyment, even if they are hell bent on converting us, they may as well get used to the current set up as it will take a while !

I think most of the friction is propaganda by extemists from both sides, like any average you need to take off the highest and the lowest values to get a true picture.
Old 11 December 2006, 12:01 PM
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Good post Pimmo2000.

Les
Old 11 December 2006, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Let's be honest though, not once have I ever heard a Muslim complain about Xmas.

The only people that have an issues are those pathetic little worms that are in councils and management of some companies.
would you complain when you can charge double time rates in your taxi for something you dont believe in
Old 11 December 2006, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by powerman1
would you complain when you can charge double time rates in your taxi for something you dont believe in
They probably believe in it more than most Brits do, Jesus is recognised as a prophet in Islam and is mentioned quite a bit in the Koran. Which is why it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that they are offended by the celebration of one of their own prophets.
Old 12 December 2006, 12:09 AM
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There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Muslim religion, or what is written in the Koran. It is not incompatible with Christianity. What is wrong is the distortion read into it by radical clerics with an unholy agenda. (The Bible is far from immune form this, either.)

But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.

The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.

It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.

So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it

Richard.

PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars

The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess

Last edited by Hoppy; 12 December 2006 at 01:54 AM.
Old 12 December 2006, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Einstein RA
mince pies......I'll be having some of them at the Christmas
do!
Make sure they've done a "risk assessement" first they could contain poison or sommat
Old 12 December 2006, 07:40 AM
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It's funny. When we lived in Bahrain before, my dad got a christmas card from one of the sheikhs, but I don't think the sheikh got it completey right...it reads something like

'to my darling, merry christmas, love....lieutenant colonel sheikh isa bin hamad al khalifa'... (not the right name, but something like that)
Old 12 December 2006, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoppy
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Muslim religion, or what is written in the Koran. It is not incompatible with Christianity. What is wrong is the distortion read into it by radical clerics with an unholy agenda. (The Bible is far from immune form this, either.)

But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.

The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.

It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.

So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it

Richard.

PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars

The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess
Blimey Hoppy, are you, like me, out of the country? Or could you just not sleep

Anyway well said that man

It all boils down to the same thing as Africa, and Ireland for that matter, namely: Tribal culture, and who are we or the yanks to say they are wrong, when you look at the toilet our democratically elected governments are happily flushing us down
Old 12 December 2006, 09:25 AM
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I find it strange that the muslim taxi drivers find time to charge double time at the end of the year... why? "It's Christmas mate"
Old 12 December 2006, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
I find it strange that the muslim taxi drivers find time to charge double time at the end of the year... why? "It's Christmas mate"
Why do you find it strange? jebus is one of the Prophets in Islam, jebus died so that Mohammed could make some money at chrimbo time.
Old 12 December 2006, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dracoro
Why do you find it strange? jebus is one of the Prophets in Islam, jebus died so that Mohammed could make some money at chrimbo time.
Ah! At least he died for something
Old 12 December 2006, 10:03 AM
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Hoppy, one of the best posts I've read this year

SB (married to a christian Arab so can see where you're coming from)
Old 12 December 2006, 10:05 AM
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Great post Hoppy, most informative
Old 12 December 2006, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Kyl3cook
It's funny. When we lived in Bahrain before, my dad got a christmas card from one of the sheikhs, but I don't think the sheikh got it completey right...it reads something like

'to my darling, merry christmas, love....lieutenant colonel sheikh isa bin hamad al khalifa'... (not the right name, but something like that)
Or perhaps he did get it right
Old 12 December 2006, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoppy
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Muslim religion, or what is written in the Koran. It is not incompatible with Christianity. What is wrong is the distortion read into it by radical clerics with an unholy agenda. (The Bible is far from immune form this, either.)

But one big difference is that hardly anybody can actually read the Koran, let alone understand it or interpret it with modern-day relevance. It was written 1,400 years ago. For comparison, try reading some original Chaucer, widely regarded as the earliest example of modern English, written just 600 years ago. It is exceedingly hard without years of dedicated practise and linguistic expertise. The stuff we read at school or today is completely re-written and scholars still argue about the true meaning of certain passages.

The Koran takes this to a whole new level - most if it is very hard to read (in early Arabic) and harder still to assign modern meaning. Other parts are completely indecipherable. They make no sense to even the most expert objective scholar.

It is a myth that all Muslims can recite the entire Koran
; at best, they will know certain passages just as we learn the Lord's Prayer and a few hymns. But the Koran is not in modern Arabic, and what little that is learned is by ear, ie parrot fashion. Few people have knowledge of what they are actauilly saying, just as I have no idea what am saying as I recite Latin grace before a meal, that I picked up at college. I never studied Latin.

So the whole Mulsilm religion relies on a few clerics who's position of authority is carried through in their teachnings and pronouncements and how, and how not, to condict a good Muslilm life. They are immume from contradiction. And like all extremists, they tend to emphasise the extreme bits that suit their purpose. That is at the heart of the Muslim problem we have today. There's nowt wrong with Mulsims per se - they weren't born as bombers and haters of the West. They've just been taught that way, and at a time of global evolution when they are receptive to it

Richard.

PS My brother is a Professsor of Arabic, as was my late father. I spent several weeks in Israel during Sept/October in the company of both Jewish and Arab scholars. They are are bewildered by the level of hate surrounding their small nation. It just does not fit with any objective reading of the Koran. I also travelled through the Old City of Jerusalem on frequent occasions, where it is still possible to find Jews, Mulsims, Armenians and Christians living and trading toether side by side quite happilly. They are good and friendly people, even to an obviuolsy British tourist, proud to show off their traditions, skills and wears. The food is fabulous and cheap. And they all love dollars

The Muslim faith is more of a sybmbol of Arab hatred, used to prop up what ever maddness the political leaders come up with. This is the real problem - politics - and it spreads throughout thje League of Arab Nations (about 20 of them) all of whom have a yet different view. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes. Logic does not apply, death means glory, Sunni muslims eg Iraqui hate Sh'ites (eg Iranians) but they also all hate eachother. Christian Arabs are obvioulsy vilified, and the whole Middle East is united in hatred against Israel, Thet we must remember that Saudi Arabia is no friend of most other Arabs and if Iran doesn get the bomb, Saudi is like to be the first test site. Kuwait is also short of Arab friends. Over lay this lot with the most complex set of political and teritorial squabbles, not forgetting oil, and is it any surprise we are in an unholy mess
while some of what you say is true, you make far too many assumptions and generalisations but at the end of the day, it it just your viewpoint which is fair enough.
Old 12 December 2006, 10:36 AM
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As Cool & the Gang said "We're going to have us a celebration ....." they never actually said which one
Old 12 December 2006, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullitt_Rich
Aren't they even trying to get an investigation into whether Mince Pies are dangerous?! ?!
Only if you hold your arm out to the side and carry a hand bag Sailor !
Old 12 December 2006, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by pimmo2000
I'm 24 so I'm only young, but in my life I've seen a stupid amount of changes in the way people act and think.

Freedom of speech and all that and yet as posted on here some people are scared to have Christmas Decs in case it offends someone ?

I just wanted to post up my thoughts on Muslims.

I received a Christmas card from a Muslim friend of mine today, he went out and bought a card that celebrates something he doesnt believe in. Why ? because he respects other peoples right to believe and practice what they like.

In my opinon everyone is entitled to believe what they like and I was moved by this gesture of good will!!!

Just wanted to say Seasons Greetings to everyone and this is my proof that the only Muslims we hear about are the bad ones !

Merry Christmas
I just received a card from a friend and i do not celebrate Christmas....so yes i agree with you!
Its just a shame some people spoil it on both parties
Old 12 December 2006, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by powerman1
would you complain when you can charge double time rates in your taxi for something you dont believe in
BUT just the same to enter a bar or club...rates have trippled, water cost £3 a bottle ...lets not point the finger to one side


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