ChrisB

Chasing the Rally GB this weekend has just about convinced me that my trusty Canon Digital Ixus isn't up to what I want to do with it. Lack of zoom beyond 2x and the autofocus makes it somewhat inflexible.

Speaking to fellow ScoobyNetter Kev over the weekend has ended in my being pointed in the SLR direction.

Primary use will be motorsport, so action shots from trackdays and rallies, along with stills. I also watch a few American Football matches, so again more action work.

I know somethings are down to personal preference but I'd like some input. I already have access to a tripod through work.

Probably start off with something second hand to save on the cash. A trip to my local Jessops type place is on the cards soon.

The other question is film processing costs. One reason I brought the Ixus Digi was that I got fed up of paying to process films from my 35mm Canon only to find half the shots were crap (usuall too far away to see anything)

TIA,

Chris.

Stephen Read

You could try to flog your Ixus and get a more versatile digi camera???

Stopping short of a full SLR, the Fuji 6900 looks good and prices keep on falling. <Check out www.kelkoo.com for comparisons.>

I get my 35mm processing done via those desperately efficient chaps Swiss chaps at Lomo. Check out www.lomo.com

There is a bit of a cult follwoing behind this camera (an old Russian design) but you can use their service for any 35mm film and if you put two (or more) films in at once it works out very reasonable plus you get your prints up on the net and on CD (reasonably large 350k jpegs) included in the price. Nb. I get 40 prints of a 36 exposure film with them too!

night night!

ChrisB

I would like to keep the Ixus as it's really small so I take places I wouldn't normally bother. Ideal for basic still work and quickly getting photo's on PCs for work projects and other tasks.

Can the high end £1000+ (excluding the Nikon digital SLR backs) really compete with an SLR + lense combo?

IWatkins

Chris,

Have a word with Josh L as he uses a digi setup to excellent effect. Mind you his setup is 4 figures and then some

However, I think you have the right idea, start with a good second hand 35mm film setup and work from there. Brand loyalty is only there once you have used them for a while. I've always used Canon, always will and no telling me Nikon is better will get me to switch.

Cheers

Ian

ChrisB

Ta Ian.

I saw Josh's stuff at Bill Gwynne. I think his camera bag alone was worth more than my camera!

kryten

I've got an Olympus E10 digi. Its a real SLR, but doesn't have changeable lenses (though dust on the CCD seems to be a real problem with a couple of mates Fuji Digi SLRs).

Its pretty good, takes CF and SM cards, zoom is done by twisting the lens barrel and you have a real SLR viewfinder.

Newer model has been announced (may even be out now) so prices should be below 1k....

Hoppy

Chris, you've touched on the fundamental problem - cars to small in the frame with 'normal' camera. To overcome this, you need a (very) long lens, or get physically close to the action.

No doubt you'll have noticed that pro photographers get in really close (with a press pass) and they have huge lenses, too. In conventional 35mm camera terms, you're looking at 300-600mm. They weigh a ton and cost up to £8k! And it's not just a question of cash - these things are bl00dy hard to use.

You'll need an SLR for sure (sometimes a mis-used term, but a camera that views through the taking lens). Good lenses are costly. Canon's 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 with image stabilisation is perfect, but £1,300. Oh, and you'll need a camera body, too, but don't go spending loads on anything too posh - a bottom end EOS will do just fine. There are quite a few cheaper lenses around 100-300mm worth looking at. I've been playing with a Sigma 28-300mm and it's an incredible lens so long as you don't expect immaculate A4 prints from it. Still £300, though.

I guess what I'm saying is that there are no cheap or easy options, and digital is becoming more attractive every day. If you're up for one of the top-end pro jobbies (ask JoshL) then you'll not be disappointed. But there are new fixed lens digital SLRs appearing all the time. Minolta Dimage 7, Fuji Finepix 6900, Sony DSC-F707 with 5x optical and 10x digital zoom. I'm going to blag a weekend with that Sony - it sounds great and it might be several weeks before a better/cheaper model is announced

If you fancy a day out, the Digital Camera Show is on from 27-29 Nov at ExCell, London Docklands. www.thedigitalcamerashow.com Sorry for the wordy reply

Richard.

mattstant

as an avid SLR user i do find it a bind paying for all the processing and film then throwing half of it away
there is one problem with slr digitals is that as they have to process and store each image they can be slow on the frames per second (a must for action photography)
So unless you can fork out £4000 plus for a pro canon or nikon wait a while as at the mo most of the cheaper ones are just not up to the job and hopefully the technology will filter down to the amateur market (thats what im waiting for anyway).
it may be worth buying a lower priced canon eos as you can buy into some good lenses (nikons are good but too expensive and best left to the pros) or even second hand till the digital market catches up and i dont think that will be to long.

ChrisB

Thanks for the input guys.

I hadn't looked at the camera review sites recently (http://www.dpreview.com is very good) and hence not seen some of the newer SLR type digis.

The Olympus E20 looks nice but is out of my price range at ~£1499.

Just reading some reviews on the Dimage 7. Jessops have the 5 listed at £699, only real difference looks to be resolution.

I've already got four compact flash cards as well, so I would like to stick to this medium (which the Dimage 7 uses)

Any particular tips for getting "test drives" Richard?

Thanks,

Chris.

[Edited by ChrisB - 11/28/2001 5:03:00 PM]

kryten

Must admit that personally I hated the Dimage when I tried it.

Its got a digital viewfinder that seemed a bit slow/jerky, the autofocus could take up to two seconds at times (eg take a shot, don't move the camera and take another - it did a full search to find the autofocus point!) and it apparently chews batteries.

The E10 feels like a camera, not a digital camera - that's what persuaded me to buy it.

I think you either have to spend a fair amount of cash, or compromise on the 'SLR' side of a digi camera.

PeterUK300

iTrader: (1)

I have both Digital Camara and SLR's. My Digital Camara is an olympus C 2020 Zoom and my SLR's are Minolta with various Lenses.
The Digital camara if fine for fairly close shots and with a PC program like Photoshop you can get some good close ups. I do find though that with the digital camara there is a delay when taking shots and this can lead to an empty track shot when taking a picture of a car at high speed.
I mainly use the SLR's for track shots and then get them developed by either someone like Truprint or my local Lloyd's Chemist. I used to get them put onto CD but this is expensive. So I have now invested in a scanner that can also scan negatives.
This works for me but then I have had SLR camara's for many many years and only had my Digi Camara 2 years. So I have come from a different stand point.
I personally think you do need an SLR unless you have an unlimited budget and can afford £4000+ for a Nikon set up with digiback as this is the best of both worlds.
All the best
Pete

[Edited by PeterUK300 - 11/28/2001 6:39:37 PM]

mega_stream

I've been known to dabble with SLR's and Digital camera's..

I've had a Canon EOS-50 for around 4 years now, love it, superb eye control focus points that really work (best to stick to Canon lenses for serious speed and excellent quality pics)

The Speed Light flashes are damn good aswell. I've also had brilliant results with black+white home developing in my DIY darkroom, can easily spend hours in there!

For digital shots I use my Nikon Coolpix995, again this is a seriously good camera, seems to cope well in all conditions, and even landscape shots give amazingly fine detail.

Some of my digi pics can be found here http://www.jl006b3365.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm

and a macro shot of a BIG dragonfly here http://www.jl006b3365.pwp.blueyonder.../dragonfly.jpg

And these pics were not taken on the highest resolution either..

Jessops are the best for advise though if your getting started in something new..

Cheers

John

ChrisB

Read three reviews so far and they all mention a standard set of AAs will be dead in 10 minutes. Best to cost in at least two full sets of hi spec AAs.

I think I'll call into Jessops and another independant camera shop this weekend for a chat.

MartinM

A quick question or two...
...I understand that different processors (Boots, Lloyds, Jessops) etc have different print qualities (no idea which are the best tho')
...but do they all process negatives to the same level of quality ie is it just the same chemical process and they all turn out the same whoever does it?
...and can you generally ask for the negatives only, with no prints at all - so you can put them in a reasonable quality negative scanner (which are the good makes?) and then 'digital darkroom' them - and does that cost less?

pslewis

I have just the answer Chris!!

You should buy my Nikon F50 (silver body), with Sigma 28-200 SuperZoom!! its hardly been out the box - indeed, thats where it is now - immaculate.

I have been looking at the Digital route but it seems to be lacking when it comes to 'action' shots and such like - I think my F50 has predictive Auto-focus too?!

E-mail me if you, or anyone else, wants a nice Nikon.

Pete

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Chris,

You'll do well to check out other review sites such as www.megapixel.net and www.steves-digicams.com if you haven't found them already. There are also some excellent (non-camera-specific) articles on photography at www.dlcphotography.net , www.luminous-landscape.com and www.photo.net

I bought a Canon EOS-D30 last month, and if you can stretch to one then I'm sure it'll do everything you want (it's a true digital SLR with interchangeable lenses). Failing that there's also the Canon PRO 90 IS which has a 10x zoom and the same (fantastic) image stabilisation as some of the EOS lenses.

Andy.

Luke

Canon EOS-1D is the daddy
get on the list quick....

KF

So what do the assembled think is going to happen in the digiback field?

I was thinking of getting a nice SLR and some very nice lenses, safe in the knowledge that when a cheap comparable digiback comes out I can use the lenses.
However, given that there is currently a difference in size of CCD vs film yielding a corresponding difference in focal length, I was given cause to pause for thought.
Will the CCD's grow to the 35mm diagonal, meaning that focal length parity is restored, or will the market diverge into "digital" lenses, and "film" lenses?
Thoughts?

Chris: sorry to hijack the thread, but I think there is some commonality here.

KF.

ChrisB

Pete, let me find some specs for the camera and I'll let you know.

KF - no problem at all. For me, spending a few hundred quid requires plenty of research and reading to try to learn as much as possible.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

KF: This topic comes up on the forums at DPReview from time to time. The general consensus seems to be that, while there would be advantages in having digital-specific lenses that were shrunk down to fit the smaller sensor, it's unlikely to happen in practise. The cost of developing a new lens is only really justified if that lens can then be sold to film users (who currently represent the vast majority) as well as digital. By the time there are enough digital users to make it worthwhile, sensors will have grown to 35mm anyway.

Right now it seems that every digital SLR body has a different focal length multiplier - the Canon D30 is 1.6x, the Nikon D1 is 1.5x, Canon 1D is 1.3x, and the new Contax N digital has a full 35mm sensor (and massive price tag to match). Which sensor size would you pick if you were developing a new lens? Bear in mind also that many digital SLR users will have film bodies as well, and that they'll want to share lenses.

My advice to you would be to invest in lenses now, safe in the knowledge that you'll be able to get a digital body to use them with whenever you like. There's no need to wait for 35mm-sized sensors to appear unless you need very wide angles (I find the added boost at the telephoto end very useful).

Andy.

pslewis

Chris - look here:-

http://www.cs.kau.se/~nicke/private/...amera/f50.html


=http://www.askanowner.com/levels/owners.asp?sid=1&lid=6415

Mine is the silver body model

Pete



[Edited by pslewis - 11/30/2001 9:06:21 AM]

[Edited by pslewis - 11/30/2001 9:22:24 AM]

KF

AndyC,
Cheers. It isn't a forum I have visited, I will have a lurk later. I was anticipating that may be the case - but I know how yield drops as silicon gets bigger, and prices correspondingly escalate.
So, the lesson is, buy zoom lenses until digibacks come with 35mm CCDs, and then knock yourself out with specialist 55mm and 24mm lenses
KF.