Geezer

With all this fuss at the moment over veils, and Muslims using the HRA to protect their right to wear a veil, could Hoodies do the same thing? I see lots of shops with signs stating that hoods must not be worn, or motorcycle helmets must be removed.

Now we all know this is just good sense for security, but if Muslims can us the HRA to protect their right to wear a veil, can Hoodies do the same?

Or, should Muslims be forced to remove their veils in shops, banks etc?

Or, as I suspect, will we just have a huge round of riots, and the government rolling over to cater for the minority?

Geezer

lightning101

Roll on the riots

LG John

I'll riot - happy to This needs sorted and blood on the streets is the way

falkster

I dont see the link that is unless you wear a hood cos youre a 7thday hoodest? The signs are there to tell customers to remove helmet/hood for safety reasons so when they rob them they have a clear face on CCTV

Geezer

Exactly, so how can Muslims defend their right to wear a veil in situations like this when it is clearly a security risk?

Once again, HRA is being used to allow a minority to do as they wish when the majority have to put up and shut up.

Geezer

falkster

How many times have you seen Crimewatch UK and they have shown a muslim woman rob a bank with a veil.....on the other hand how many times do they use helmets etc??

I see what youre saying but its never gonna happen.

The reason that specific woman should remove her veil is a) because only really needs to wear it in front of adult men and b) because she was teaching children (or assisting) and the children would need to see expressions and the movement of her mouth in order to teach them.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

I think you are right on this, you cannot use religion to let you do anything you want. After all, I could come up with my own "religion" and start claiming anything I like.

Get those veils off, this is the UK, and if I cannot see your face, I don't trust you

Bateman

What about the 'Rantallions' , should they be exposed in Banks ?

falkster

Again you have a point but you cant dictate to people what they can and cant do when it comes to religion. We are a cosmopolitan society that should embrace, and does, other cultures and if we start to dictate to minorities what they can and cant do then we will find ourselves back in the dark ages and all supporting BNP

Only my opinion

Geezer

Stopping people wearing veils in certain places is not supporting the BNP. 99% of hood wearing or motorcycle wearing people will never commit a crime. The same for veil wearing women, however, it is a risk, you cannot deny that.

Also, in schools, they should not be allowed to wear them.

We are not dictating that they not be allowed to wear a symbol of their reilgion (and indeed suppression), it is simply saying that people, whatever their religion, should not be allowed to cover up their faces in certain situations, and that is perfectly reasonable.

They can wear them at home, in the street, whatever, but if a shop owner does not want you wear them, then you should not. If the law says they should not be worn in school, or at airport checkpoints, or wherever, then they should not.

That is not discrimination, unless you allow veils to be worn by Muslims, then you are discriminating against non Muslims. This is what upsets the indigenous population. There is nothig wrong with embracing apsects of the cultures that are absorbed in to the UK, we are after all a mongrel nation, but trying to work it so your are singled out for speacialist treatment is wrong. It is important that everyone lives by the same general rules and laws.

Geezer

falkster

I agree with the veil being removed for school but Im not certain that anybody could get a law passed that would make muslim women remove their veils in a shop. If a shop owner wanted to do that in their own shop from a safety point of view Im not sure how that would work as it could be classed as discrimintaion which goes back to my previous point of how many muslim veil wearing women have you seen on Crimewatch robbing banks?

Geezer

But shop owners are presuming that people wearing hoods are going to commit a crime, when most of the time they are not. They are discriminating against those people too.

One rule for all is not only much simpler, it is simply right!

Geezer

Leslie

Perfectly reasonable arguments of yours Geezer.

Les

r32

You can if they're Christian, seems like the BBC wont let newsreaders were a crucifix, BA and schools ban them too but if youre a muslin (fine cotton type of cloth used to wrap meat) then its OK to wear a jillybob or whatever .....

GaryK

So the fact its never *been* done means it never will?

Nobody had flown a plane into the twin towers before 9/11

GC8

"...rivers of blood..."?

Jamescsti

How long will it be before people use it as a disguise to commit crime though,
Admitadly I couldn't get away with it, not many 6ft4 muslim women.
But whats to stop others doing it, same as bike helmets, could be male or female of any race under the veil's, i'm sure it's only a matter of time.

robby

[QUOTE=falkster]
The reason that specific woman should remove her veil is a) because only really needs to wear it in front of adult men [QUOTE]

sometimes wish more women would wear them - especially the morning after

falkster

No it doesnt mean they never will but nobody can presum anything! We can only work on what we know from the past rather than what could be!!

I seem to be getting lots of grief from quite a few people but as far as Im concerned I share the veiws of most but its how you apply those views. You cant dictate anything to anyone. If someone comes into my house I would ask them to respect my views and take off their veils, remove their crucifix etc but to focus on a certain group in public wont happen unless their are security implications!

The BA thing is purely because BA dont want a representative of their company displaying a religious sign....the reason being customers may think that BA are Jewish, COE or Catholic.

falkster

Presuming again!

falkster

You are correct it is a reasonable argument but its one that wont ever be won!


Im not some do gooding freak that embraces all cultures but just see that there are some narrow minded views around!

The only non religious example I can think of is when I was younger I used to wear a Man City pin on my tie at work and was asked to remove it. It wasnt because my boss didnt support man city but it was the fact that the customer didnt need to know my views on anything because I was there to serve them (The BA example again)

Geezer

Yet BA still allow Seikhs to wear turbans, and Hindus to wear their bangles, so what rationale was there behind the crucifix decision?

I don't think anyone is saying that Muslims shold not be allowed to wear veils in public, you are twisting it. Simply that in certain circumstances, they should not be allowed to wear them, like everyone else.

Funnily enough, Aishah Azmi didn't feel the need to wear her veil for he job interview nor for her teacher training course, so why the fuss now?

Islam says that men & women should dress modestly, it does not say the face should be covered. It is not religous persecution at all.

Geezer