PeteBrant

BBC NEWS | UK | Terror controls 'may get tougher'

So, terror controls on people that have commited no crime whatsoever may get tougher.

i.e. in breach of human rights.

This is such a dangerous precedent - These people are being held having commited no crime, they are being held on the suspicion that they might commit crime in the future.

This goes against every basic legal principle we have - innocent until proven guilty.

Imagine if the police gave everyone in a scooby a NIP due to the fact they were very likely to speed at some point - That is exactly what we are looking at here.

KiwiGTI

I think it's a good idea, we aren't strict enough with people these days.

Many of these people take far too many liberties and abuse their so-called "human rights" while taking the **** out of this country and it's authorities.

Sbradley

Yes, Kiwi, but where do you draw the line? And what's to stop someone else rubbing your line out and drawing another? Then detaining you because of your stance on where the line should be?

SB

KiwiGTI

But let's face it, the people detained would be of "interest" to the police, not the average person.

How many people here have been detained under the Terrorism act for example?

PeteBrant

Since 9/11 to March 2005.

701 arrested

17 convicted.

That means 684 people detained without charge for anything up to 21 days.

SJ_Skyline

Blind faith in the government and an "I'm alright jack" attitude will only get you so far.

KiwiGTI

Fair enough too. Better to check them out if they have been fraternising or involved with aspects of terrorism.

Many of these people aren't angels and at the end of it all they have been released.

And as for the comment re: *****/communists etc. Nobody is being persecuted for their beliefs, they are being "persecuted" because theye are an enemy to this country or are planning to commit criminal activity.

PeteBrant

THis is precisely the point - There i sno evidence to support this, otherwise the people would be convicted. These house arrest are where people are suspected of supporting terrorism - they haven't actually commited any crime.

As I said, it is tantamount to giving you 6 points on your license tomorrow because "you are bound to speed at somepoint because of the car you drive".

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

yeah but those 684 people were not arrested for nothing there must have been suspicion or grounds! they were then released without charge. Would you prefere these 684 were not arrested then went on to blow up London????

But as Kiwi said if you ain't under suspicion already then you should be ok, driving a scooby does not make you a terrorist and these boys already know who they are after.

OllyK

Of those 701 - 1 was an elderly white male that heckled at the Labour Party conference and another was a white train spotter.

OllyK

See my comment above - the police can arrest you under the terrorism act for doing pretty much anything and thus bypass the normal rights that you have.

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Is this actually the case? - Is it not possibly a situatation where there is insufficient evidence to convict - or possible insufficient legally obtained evidence to convict

That sounds about right - reminds me of a relative who used to whack one of his lads round the back of the legs every so often - just in passing - to cover the misdemeanours that he knew the lad must have committed that he hadn't been caught for.

KiwiGTI

And what exactly is natural British Justice? Is that some idyllic system that existed in the 50/60s?

Times have changed and we have unprecedented situations. The people that oppose our society and criminals don't play along or subscribe to justice or fairness.

mart360

But blanket arrests and detention of innocent people is isnt right either.

so how long before we are advocating the ****** squads? and we say other countrys have poor records for human rights, yet slowly but surely we are heading the same way!. on the one hand we proclaim to be so PC correct, but by the back door are ignoring the very basics of which our democratic system was founded.

Prehaps if they just got tough and imposed and kept to proper sentances, then the crims might just get the message...

Mart

scoobynutta555

No more unprecedented than when the IRA were blowing things and people up. Since when did criminals or terrorists play along to justice and fairness?

I laugh at people who say these people weren't arrested for nothing in the first place. As was mentioned earlier the more powers that are given the less liberty and freedoms individuals enjoy. The line is constantly moved so much so the line at the end if very far removed from where it started.

Sleepwalking into a police state.

MJW

The person with the most money wins, that's the usual way for British Justice !

Try telling that to Jean Charles de Menezes !!

Leslie

The laws we have had in this country for many years were adequate to cover all the aspects of criminal behaviour. It is the people who administrate it who are screwing us all up. Our time proved system quite rightly states that if there is insufficient evidence to convict in a court of law that the accused should be freed. Imprisoning people purely on suspicion is morally wrong, just as in Guantamo Bay. This is too much power to allow a government to have since the likelyhood of misuse in a future police state does not bear thinking about. We have to look ahead to the effects of the all powerful base over the people that this sorry lot of creeps are slowly imposing on us. We even have local authorities advertising for the public to snoop and give evidence against their neighbours now. This is a slippery path that we will all regret in the future. Politicians and their cronies are ever ambitious for more and more power over us and it is getting out of hand.

Bring back proper hard penalties for those who are convicted fairly of crime instead of letting them off for lack of prison places, and the impotent ideas of rehabilitation instead of punishment, get rid of the ludicrous human rights legislation forced on us by the Eu and wimpishly accepted by Billy to help his own self aggrandisement, and shift the weight of priorities towards the law abiding victims instead of the criminals.

We must protect our personal freedoms at all costs against these loony, PC lefty liberals.

About time we had a strong and competent leader who will govern this country for the sake of the indigenous electorate.

Les.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

This is what can happen when emergency powers are envoked to ´protect´ the population from a threat real or percieved.

Reichstag Fire Decree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not saying we are going to end up like **** germany but it started in a similar way with the suspension of civil liberties.

However we dont want terrorists killing inocent people - so money and recource needs to be put into surveillance etc. The big question is, which none of us can answer, Is how real is this threat? How much of it is percieved,a load of hype that is used to take away our civil liberties....Or is there a very real threat.

At the moment they seem to be picking up young guys with terrorist intentions making home made devices but who are no match for our security services. I don´t read about an expert team of terrorists in their 30s and 40s trained to nines in counter/anti surveillance explosives etc being picked up.

Who knows...we dont...perhaps the threat is very real???

Steve

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Well said Les

DCI Gene Hunt

Even better if you read this while humming the dam busters music......

KiwiGTI

We are faced with a newer enemy, one that is totally unafraid of killing themselves, their wives or even their children in the process.

Are we prepared to let them go to Afghanistan and train in camps, let them learn about explosives and mass murder, let them communicate and send emails (possible coded), let them spread dissent amongst their own communities and do absolutely nothing until they are caught red-handed in a Tube station with a bomb strapped to their bodies?

Because at the moment they can sneer at the police and do all that without a single repercussion.

And don't be so worried about power-mad politicians, the real reason why there is so much persistant prosecution and invention of new fines for the averag person is solely to do with making money for government and councils, because they spend it so irresponsibly. Anyone who works in the public service will confirm that there is virtually no management or control at all.

scoobynutta555

What needs to be addressed is why there is a threat in the first place. Going in all guns blazing toppling regimes isn't the best idea for starters. Quite ironic that the Taliban and Saddam were the main targets since these two groups were buddy buddy with us and the USA a few years back. Even more ironic that weapons of mass destruction was the excuse used for Iraq yet their old foe Iran is the mainplayer in this field.

WTF can they do against Iran now that they have already fcuked up 2 invasions, answer is nothing.

scoobynutta555

Utter rubbish.

Geezer

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin.

True words, the terrorists win if we implement laws like that.

Geezer

KiwiGTI

Still maintain the normal people living normal lives are unaffected.

Realistically what curbs on freedom has anyone experienced apart from supposedly longer queues at airports and not being able to clip their nails on board?

unclebuck

They've already won. Handed victory on a plate by Blair and co.

GC8

War is Peace !

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Brilliant It works