|
Government may want tougher terror controls.
BBC NEWS | UK | Terror controls 'may get tougher'
So, terror controls on people that have commited no crime whatsoever may get tougher. i.e. in breach of human rights. This is such a dangerous precedent - These people are being held having commited no crime, they are being held on the suspicion that they might commit crime in the future. This goes against every basic legal principle we have - innocent until proven guilty. Imagine if the police gave everyone in a scooby a NIP due to the fact they were very likely to speed at some point - That is exactly what we are looking at here. |
I think it's a good idea, we aren't strict enough with people these days.
Many of these people take far too many liberties and abuse their so-called "human rights" while taking the piss out of this country and it's authorities. |
Yes, Kiwi, but where do you draw the line? And what's to stop someone else rubbing your line out and drawing another? Then detaining you because of your stance on where the line should be?
SB |
But let's face it, the people detained would be of "interest" to the police, not the average person.
How many people here have been detained under the Terrorism act for example? |
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
But let's face it, the people detained would be of "interest" to the police, not the average person.
How many people here have been detained under the Terrorism act for example? 701 arrested 17 convicted. That means 684 people detained without charge for anything up to 21 days. |
When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. |
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
Since 9/11 to March 2005.
701 arrested 17 convicted. That means 684 people detained without charge for anything up to 21 days. Many of these people aren't angels and at the end of it all they have been released. And as for the comment re: Nazis/communists etc. Nobody is being persecuted for their beliefs, they are being "persecuted" because theye are an enemy to this country or are planning to commit criminal activity. |
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
they are being "persecuted" because theye are an enemy to this country or are planning to commit criminal activity. As I said, it is tantamount to giving you 6 points on your license tomorrow because "you are bound to speed at somepoint because of the car you drive". |
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
Since 9/11 to March 2005.
701 arrested 17 convicted. That means 684 people detained without charge for anything up to 21 days. But as Kiwi said if you ain't under suspicion already then you should be ok, driving a scooby does not make you a terrorist and these boys already know who they are after. |
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Fair enough too. Better to check them out if they have been fraternising or involved with aspects of terrorism.
|
Originally Posted by Wurzel
yeah but those 684 people were not arrested for nothing there must have been suspicion or grounds! they were then released without charge. Would you prefere these 684 were not arrested then went on to blow up London????
But as Kiwi said if you ain't under suspicion already then you should be ok, driving a scooby does not make you a terrorist and these boys already know who they are after. |
They haven't been arrested because the evidence points to them though. They've been arrested because the gov. *suspects* that they *might* do something. Completely against natural British justice. If the authorities have no evidence then they need to go get it. Those who say that "Fair enough too. Better to check them out if they have been fraternising or involved with aspects of terrorism" should wake up and smell the coffe or they'll find that they get *detained* themselves soon ..
Dave |
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
THis is precisely the point - There i sno evidence to support this, otherwise the people would be convicted. These house arrest are where people are suspected of supporting terrorism - they haven't actually commited any crime.
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
As I said, it is tantamount to giving you 6 points on your license tomorrow because "you are bound to speed at somepoint because of the car you drive".
|
Originally Posted by hutton_d
They've been arrested because the gov. *suspects* that they *might* do something. Completely against natural British justice.
Times have changed and we have unprecedented situations. The people that oppose our society and criminals don't play along or subscribe to justice or fairness. |
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
And what exactly is natural British Justice? Is that some idyllic system that existed in the 50/60s?
Times have changed and we have unprecedented situations. The people that oppose our society and criminals don't play along or subscribe to justice or fairness. so how long before we are advocating the snatch squads? and we say other countrys have poor records for human rights, yet slowly but surely we are heading the same way!. on the one hand we proclaim to be so PC correct, but by the back door are ignoring the very basics of which our democratic system was founded. Prehaps if they just got tough and imposed and kept to proper sentances, then the crims might just get the message... Mart |
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Times have changed and we have unprecedented situations. The people that oppose our society and criminals don't play along or subscribe to justice or fairness.
I laugh at people who say these people weren't arrested for nothing in the first place. As was mentioned earlier the more powers that are given the less liberty and freedoms individuals enjoy. The line is constantly moved so much so the line at the end if very far removed from where it started. Sleepwalking into a police state. |
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
And what exactly is natural British Justice?
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Fair enough too. Better to check them out if they have been fraternising or involved with aspects of terrorism.
Many of these people aren't angels and at the end of it all they have been released. |
The laws we have had in this country for many years were adequate to cover all the aspects of criminal behaviour. It is the people who administrate it who are screwing us all up. Our time proved system quite rightly states that if there is insufficient evidence to convict in a court of law that the accused should be freed. Imprisoning people purely on suspicion is morally wrong, just as in Guantamo Bay. This is too much power to allow a government to have since the likelyhood of misuse in a future police state does not bear thinking about. We have to look ahead to the effects of the all powerful base over the people that this sorry lot of creeps are slowly imposing on us. We even have local authorities advertising for the public to snoop and give evidence against their neighbours now. This is a slippery path that we will all regret in the future. Politicians and their cronies are ever ambitious for more and more power over us and it is getting out of hand.
Bring back proper hard penalties for those who are convicted fairly of crime instead of letting them off for lack of prison places, and the impotent ideas of rehabilitation instead of punishment, get rid of the ludicrous human rights legislation forced on us by the Eu and wimpishly accepted by Billy to help his own self aggrandisement, and shift the weight of priorities towards the law abiding victims instead of the criminals. We must protect our personal freedoms at all costs against these loony, PC lefty liberals. About time we had a strong and competent leader who will govern this country for the sake of the indigenous electorate. Les. |
This is what can happen when emergency powers are envoked to īprotectī the population from a threat real or percieved.
Reichstag Fire Decree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I am not saying we are going to end up like NAZI germany but it started in a similar way with the suspension of civil liberties. However we dont want terrorists killing inocent people - so money and recource needs to be put into surveillance etc. The big question is, which none of us can answer, Is how real is this threat? How much of it is percieved,a load of hype that is used to take away our civil liberties....Or is there a very real threat. At the moment they seem to be picking up young guys with terrorist intentions making home made devices but who are no match for our security services. I donīt read about an expert team of terrorists in their 30s and 40s trained to nines in counter/anti surveillance explosives etc being picked up. Who knows...we dont...perhaps the threat is very real??? Steve |
Originally Posted by Leslie
The laws we have had in this country for many years were adequate to cover all the aspects of criminal behaviour. It is the people who administrate it who are screwing us all up. Our time proved system quite rightly states that if there is insufficient evidence to convict in a court of law that the accused should be freed. Imprisoning people purely on suspicion is morally wrong, just as in Guantamo Bay. This is too much power to allow a government to have since the likelyhood of misuse in a future police state does not bear thinking about. We have to look ahead to the effects of the all powerful base over the people that this sorry lot of creeps are slowly imposing on us. We even have local authorities advertising for the public to snoop and give evidence against their neighbours now. This is a slippery path that we will all regret in the future. Politicians and their cronies are ever ambitious for more and more power over us and it is getting out of hand.
Bring back proper hard penalties for those who are convicted fairly of crime instead of letting them off for lack of prison places, and the impotent ideas of rehabilitation instead of punishment, get rid of the ludicrous human rights legislation forced on us by the Eu and wimpishly accepted by Billy to help his own self aggrandisement, and shift the weight of priorities towards the law abiding victims instead of the criminals. We must protect our personal freedoms at all costs against these loony, PC lefty liberals. About time we had a strong and competent leader who will govern this country for the sake of the indigenous electorate. Les. |
Originally Posted by Leslie
The laws we have had in this country for many years were adequate to cover all the aspects of criminal behaviour. It is the people who administrate it who are screwing us all up. Our time proved system quite rightly states that if there is insufficient evidence to convict in a court of law that the accused should be freed. Imprisoning people purely on suspicion is morally wrong, just as in Guantamo Bay. This is too much power to allow a government to have since the likelyhood of misuse in a future police state does not bear thinking about. We have to look ahead to the effects of the all powerful base over the people that this sorry lot of creeps are slowly imposing on us. We even have local authorities advertising for the public to snoop and give evidence against their neighbours now. This is a slippery path that we will all regret in the future. Politicians and their cronies are ever ambitious for more and more power over us and it is getting out of hand.
Bring back proper hard penalties for those who are convicted fairly of crime instead of letting them off for lack of prison places, and the impotent ideas of rehabilitation instead of punishment, get rid of the ludicrous human rights legislation forced on us by the Eu and wimpishly accepted by Billy to help his own self aggrandisement, and shift the weight of priorities towards the law abiding victims instead of the criminals. We must protect our personal freedoms at all costs against these loony, PC lefty liberals. About time we had a strong and competent leader who will govern this country for the sake of the indigenous electorate. Les. |
We are faced with a newer enemy, one that is totally unafraid of killing themselves, their wives or even their children in the process.
Are we prepared to let them go to Afghanistan and train in camps, let them learn about explosives and mass murder, let them communicate and send emails (possible coded), let them spread dissent amongst their own communities and do absolutely nothing until they are caught red-handed in a Tube station with a bomb strapped to their bodies? Because at the moment they can sneer at the police and do all that without a single repercussion. And don't be so worried about power-mad politicians, the real reason why there is so much persistant prosecution and invention of new fines for the averag person is solely to do with making money for government and councils, because they spend it so irresponsibly. Anyone who works in the public service will confirm that there is virtually no management or control at all. |
What needs to be addressed is why there is a threat in the first place. Going in all guns blazing toppling regimes isn't the best idea for starters. Quite ironic that the Taliban and Saddam were the main targets since these two groups were buddy buddy with us and the USA a few years back. Even more ironic that weapons of mass destruction was the excuse used for Iraq yet their old foe Iran is the mainplayer in this field.
WTF can they do against Iran now that they have already fcuked up 2 invasions, answer is nothing. |
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
And don't be so worried about power-mad politicians, the real reason why there is so much persistant prosecution and invention of new fines for the averag person is solely to do with making money for government and councils |
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
And don't be so worried about power-mad politicians, the real reason why there is so much persistant prosecution and invention of new fines for the averag person is solely to do with making money for government and councils, because they spend it so irresponsibly. Anyone who works in the public service will confirm that there is virtually no management or control at all.
Dave |
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin.
True words, the terrorists win if we implement laws like that. Geezer |
Still maintain the normal people living normal lives are unaffected.
Realistically what curbs on freedom has anyone experienced apart from supposedly longer queues at airports and not being able to clip their nails on board? |
They've already won. Handed victory on a plate by Blair and co.
|
War is Peace !
|
Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
Even better if you read this while humming the dam busters music......:thumb:
|
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:59 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands