Terrorism?
10 August 2006, 06:57 PM
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Terrorism?
Is it just me or did terrorism not just win a decisive victory today? Surely our government/security scored an own goal? If we know the aim of terrorism is to cause terror, then why go to such great lengths to cause further terror with last minute phone calls, hasty media coverage etc? Why didn’t we just move in and arrest the suspects (20 odd people so far??), put our security services on maximum alert, and let everyone carry on with as little disruption as possible?
OK so some people as saying this is good, it shows our security is working. I find myself thinking though, that either the security services haven’t got a clue as to how wide spread the "threat" now is, hence the removal of procedures that were supposedly safe before, or cynically that it’s somehow politically expedient at this time to deliberately cause fear and alarm.
I noticed that there was quite a heavy police presence at Glasgow Central station today; make of that what you will.
Last edited by _RIP_; 10 August 2006 at 06:59 PM.
10 August 2006, 07:00 PM
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Unless they make a very public show of how serious it is you wont be scared.
Unless you're scared you might actually object to BLiar's imposition of a police state.
Sooner or later they will manage to link "speeding" to "the war on terror" ....
Unless you're scared you might actually object to BLiar's imposition of a police state.
Sooner or later they will manage to link "speeding" to "the war on terror" ....
10 August 2006, 07:11 PM
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there are 2 main reasons for this fuss at the airports. One is that it helps to create an undersiege mentality with traditionally makes a country support their government and object less to new laws which may restrict freedon. The other is that the brutal murder of thousands of innocent lebanease which has been supported by T Bliar is making people question his judgement and creating sympathy for a Muslim country known for most of its people being moderate and liberal by middle eastern standards. This pisses him right off as the idea is to demonize the Muslims of the world in order to justify mass murder against Muslims in the middle east.
10 August 2006, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by _RIP_
[LEFT]
Is it just me or did terrorism not just win a decisive victory today? Surely our government/security scored an own goal? If we know the aim of terrorism is to cause terror, then why go to such great lengths to cause further terror with last minute phone calls, hasty media coverage etc? Why didn’t we just move in and arrest the suspects (20 odd people so far??), put our security services on maximum alert, and let everyone carry on with as little disruption as possible?
Is it just me or did terrorism not just win a decisive victory today? Surely our government/security scored an own goal? If we know the aim of terrorism is to cause terror, then why go to such great lengths to cause further terror with last minute phone calls, hasty media coverage etc? Why didn’t we just move in and arrest the suspects (20 odd people so far??), put our security services on maximum alert, and let everyone carry on with as little disruption as possible?
10 August 2006, 10:18 PM
#5
Originally Posted by davegtt
Hang about, isnt this what happened? We just moved in and arrested the suspects and let everyone get on with what theyre doing? OK so they have a little inconvienince of hanging around the airport slightly long or they cant take a book onboard etc... But generally everything has gone smoothly today.
10 August 2006, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Suresh
I agree. Surely if these conspiracy theorists are right and the Government really wanted to enact totalitarian control and totally demonise muslims, then all they had to do was to let the terrorists go ahead and bomb the planes.
Personally it all just smacks of government incompetence, no conspiracy required.
10 August 2006, 10:39 PM
#7
They cant win really can they, not now, damage is done.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are loving this, they have moved from the top spot in the worlds most unpopular religion chart, somehow knocking on doors to drop off the Watchtower doesnt seem so bad when Planes might start exploding (again).
I am a rational kind of bloke but I did start thinking before that when I fly to London in September I am going to clock all the people who look a bit Muslim and keep my eye on them, they so much as move they get sixteen stone of nervous self preservation landing on them which I know sounds a bit mad.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are loving this, they have moved from the top spot in the worlds most unpopular religion chart, somehow knocking on doors to drop off the Watchtower doesnt seem so bad when Planes might start exploding (again).
I am a rational kind of bloke but I did start thinking before that when I fly to London in September I am going to clock all the people who look a bit Muslim and keep my eye on them, they so much as move they get sixteen stone of nervous self preservation landing on them which I know sounds a bit mad.
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10 August 2006, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Why let thousands die when the same result is being achived with no loss of life?
Personally it all just smacks of government incompetence, no conspiracy required.
Personally it all just smacks of government incompetence, no conspiracy required.
10 August 2006, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dsmith
Unless they make a very public show of how serious it is you wont be scared.
Unless you're scared you might actually object to BLiar's imposition of a police state.
Sooner or later they will manage to link "speeding" to "the war on terror" ....
Unless you're scared you might actually object to BLiar's imposition of a police state.
Sooner or later they will manage to link "speeding" to "the war on terror" ....
Suresh?
11 August 2006, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
What government incompetence though? Theyve protected the country, arrested 21 nutters and everybody is happy, apart from the prats who cant distiguish between a normal religious person and a fanatical idiot.
11 August 2006, 08:57 AM
#11
Originally Posted by OllyK
We wouldn't be in this "danger" if previous, and in particular this government had taken different actions. It's like the school bulley saying what a wonderful job he is doing of stopping you from getting beaten up when it's only him that would have beaten you up in the first place.
Being angry about something that is happening thousands of miles away and doesn't concern you is no good reason to kill your fellow citizens is it? And that is the crux of the problem.
11 August 2006, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Suresh
Being angry about something that is happening thousands of miles away and doesn't concern you is no good reason to kill your fellow citizens is it? And that is the crux of the problem.
11 August 2006, 09:09 AM
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Perhaps a stupid stance/thought pattern but I don't take yesterday's nonsense seriously at all.I am sick to death of the 'war on terror' phrase and I just wish I had kept the comedy leaflet the government sent us re terrorist attacks.
Walking around Birminham yesterday I thought any idiot could walk into any town, City,village,port,holiday destination at any time and blow it up .Why don't they? Bali was a soft target.Why would mad terrorists want such convoluted plans with planes when they could simply cause as much outrage (if not more) with soft targets?
I wonder if you could count on one hand the amount of Pakistani nationals of British origin in Pakistan.
Walking around Birminham yesterday I thought any idiot could walk into any town, City,village,port,holiday destination at any time and blow it up .Why don't they? Bali was a soft target.Why would mad terrorists want such convoluted plans with planes when they could simply cause as much outrage (if not more) with soft targets?
I wonder if you could count on one hand the amount of Pakistani nationals of British origin in Pakistan.
11 August 2006, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by lozgti
Perhaps a stupid stance/thought pattern but I don't take yesterday's nonsense seriously at all.I am sick to death of the 'war on terror' phrase and I just wish I had kept the comedy leaflet the government sent us re terrorist attacks.
Walking around Birminham yesterday I thought any idiot could walk into any town, City,village,port,holiday destination at any time and blow it up .Why don't they? Bali was a soft target.Why would mad terrorists want such convoluted plans with planes when they could simply cause as much outrage (if not more) with soft targets?
I wonder if you could count on one hand the amount of Pakistani nationals of British origin in Pakistan.
Walking around Birminham yesterday I thought any idiot could walk into any town, City,village,port,holiday destination at any time and blow it up .Why don't they? Bali was a soft target.Why would mad terrorists want such convoluted plans with planes when they could simply cause as much outrage (if not more) with soft targets?
I wonder if you could count on one hand the amount of Pakistani nationals of British origin in Pakistan.
11 August 2006, 09:15 AM
#15
Originally Posted by lozgti
Walking around Birminham yesterday I thought any idiot could walk into any town, City,village,port,holiday destination at any time and blow it up .Why don't they? Bali was a soft target.Why would mad terrorists want such convoluted plans with planes when they could simply cause as much outrage (if not more) with soft targets?
Blowing up planes belonging to US carriers wold cause a profound effect lasting years. Look at the fallout from 9/11 to the tourism and aviation industry for example.
Conspiracy theories are normally complete rubbish because of the very fact that people talk. I had an emergency at work on Wednesday night and left my office at 11:30. We are opposite New Scotland Yard and the streets were packed with police vans - obviously they were all getting ready to act. Are you going to tell me that hundreds of police officers are complicit in a government cover-up; that the Muslims arrested are just paid actors etc.
Anyway my point is that usually if more than 1-2 people know of a plan then it will never be a secret hence why conspiracy theories won't work.
11 August 2006, 09:17 AM
#16
Originally Posted by Suresh
or we wouldn't be "in danger" if previous Governments had been more selective in their immigration policies and avoided importing incompatible groups who are unwilling and unable to integrate
Being angry about something that is happening thousands of miles away and doesn't concern you is no good reason to kill your fellow citizens is it? And that is the crux of the problem.
Being angry about something that is happening thousands of miles away and doesn't concern you is no good reason to kill your fellow citizens is it? And that is the crux of the problem.
It's effectively fighting for your country - and who can criticise for that? (unless taken to extremes of course, I'm talking about non-violent protest.
11 August 2006, 09:25 AM
#17
Originally Posted by pwhittle
The crux is that some Muslims do. Islam is 1 big community, and Muslims support each other, rather than seeing everyone else as foreigners. Quite a noble ethos, until taken to extremes.
But then again spending time and energy solving these problems would be constructive rather than destructive. . . .
11 August 2006, 09:31 AM
#18
Who says they aren't?
I think high unemployment rates can be partly explained by the number of ignorant bigots (as represented numerous times on SN) who wouldn't consider employing a Muslim.
It's only a tiny proportion involved in any sort of violent approach.
TBH the way Muslims have been treated over the decades, and in particularly having Britain and the US deciding to give a bunch of Jews their land, it's not surprising they feel agreived. How would that make you feel?
I do however think that people should try and integrate when they emigrate. having little pockets of ethnicities just adds to the problems and lack of understanding. It's like the policy of sticking all of an areas ******* into a council estate, it just compounds the issues.
I think high unemployment rates can be partly explained by the number of ignorant bigots (as represented numerous times on SN) who wouldn't consider employing a Muslim.
It's only a tiny proportion involved in any sort of violent approach.
TBH the way Muslims have been treated over the decades, and in particularly having Britain and the US deciding to give a bunch of Jews their land, it's not surprising they feel agreived. How would that make you feel?
I do however think that people should try and integrate when they emigrate. having little pockets of ethnicities just adds to the problems and lack of understanding. It's like the policy of sticking all of an areas ******* into a council estate, it just compounds the issues.
Last edited by pwhittle; 11 August 2006 at 09:34 AM.
11 August 2006, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang
there are 2 main reasons for this fuss at the airports. One is that it helps to create an undersiege mentality with traditionally makes a country support their government and object less to new laws which may restrict freedon. The other is that the brutal murder of thousands of innocent lebanease which has been supported by T Bliar is making people question his judgement and creating sympathy for a Muslim country known for most of its people being moderate and liberal by middle eastern standards. This pisses him right off as the idea is to demonize the Muslims of the world in order to justify mass murder against Muslims in the middle east.
note: I do not support the methods the Israelis are using. The point I'm making is thats it a simplistic comment you make above, and if the terrorists in Britain believe this one sided view you portray and this drives them to kill thousands above then they are also simplistic.
11 August 2006, 09:43 AM
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[quote=pwhittle]
TBH the way Muslims have been treated over the decades, and in particularly having Britain and the US deciding to give a bunch of Jews their land, it's not surprising they feel agreived. How would that make you feel?
quote]
I hear your sentiments but this above comment shows a huge gap in your understanding of history.
TBH the way Muslims have been treated over the decades, and in particularly having Britain and the US deciding to give a bunch of Jews their land, it's not surprising they feel agreived. How would that make you feel?
quote]
I hear your sentiments but this above comment shows a huge gap in your understanding of history.
11 August 2006, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by pwhittle
particularly having Britain and the US deciding to give a bunch of Jews their land, it's not surprising they feel agreived. How would that make you feel?
11 August 2006, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by pwhittle
I think high unemployment rates can be partly explained by the number of ignorant bigots (as represented numerous times on SN) who wouldn't consider employing a Muslim.
Anyone who says employers are being racist only needs to look at the stats. Sikhs and Hindu's earn MORE on average than white people in the UK... I think this goes to show employers ignore skin colour, and are more interested in skills and attitude.
11 August 2006, 06:13 PM
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I think Mi5 and the police have done a great job the last few days, and I think the heavy police presence is there to make us feel safer, a show of force, it should instil confidence in us, not fear! They are simply showing us that we can protect ourselves and can respond to threats. Heathrow almost always has armoured cars and hundreds of armed police on patrol, never makes me feel afraid, always the opposite in fact!
We should also be grateful to the Pakistani Inteligence, it seems........
We should also be grateful to the Pakistani Inteligence, it seems........
12 August 2006, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted Maul
perhaps if this moderate and liberal country had not allowed half of its land to be taken over by a terrorist organisation in the past 6 years, supported by other countries, with the sole aim to start war with the neighbouring country to the south, then they may have protected their own people.
note: I do not support the methods the Israelis are using. The point I'm making is thats it a simplistic comment you make above, and if the terrorists in Britain believe this one sided view you portray and this drives them to kill thousands above then they are also simplistic.
note: I do not support the methods the Israelis are using. The point I'm making is thats it a simplistic comment you make above, and if the terrorists in Britain believe this one sided view you portray and this drives them to kill thousands above then they are also simplistic.
THey are not terrorists they are freedom fighters fighting for the realease of 100's of kidnapped country men and removal of Israel from Lebanon. Israel never fully withdrew from Lebanon. How exactly can you complain about hezbollah when Terror attacks by Irgun helped to found the state of Israel. These attacks included attacks on British politicians.
12 August 2006, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Petem95
So would you employ someone who demanded they have access to a "mecca-facing prayer-room" whenever they want to go and pray? Someone who would likely be offended by Christmas decorations, and fellow employees drinking alcohol? Someone who would refuse to accept the office dress-code because it doesnt fit in with their religion? And they would probably have lower skills to boot....
Who drinks at work where o you work. Thousands of muslims are quite happy to live under the same working conditions as anyone else and plenty like a drink after work.
12 August 2006, 10:51 PM
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my 2 cents worth as a british muslim.
from the people i know(and who they know etc etc) no muslim i can think of actually supported 9/11.
and come on really, if anyone muslim or otherwise objects to any kind of christian celebration in a mainly christian society, then that society should tell them to SHUT THE F**K UP!!! every one knows where they stand then
from the people i know(and who they know etc etc) no muslim i can think of actually supported 9/11.
and come on really, if anyone muslim or otherwise objects to any kind of christian celebration in a mainly christian society, then that society should tell them to SHUT THE F**K UP!!! every one knows where they stand then
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