f1sh4u

Hi all,

I was just wondering everyones opinion on tuning engines and not telling your insurance company. If you make non visible changes or ones that it would take a real expert to spot. Like upgraded ECU, different turbo etc What do you feel the likelyhood of getting caught is? I suppose the only time they would ever check is if you wrote the car off and they recovered the car, but would they really check the internals of your engine? Do you think its worth the risk for the money you will save on policy? Has anyone done this?

Gutmann pug

What happens if you seriously injure someone. Your insurance doesnt pay out and you are left with a £1,000,000 hospital bill. Out of order matey, if you mod it you pay claim it.

Gary

f1sh4u

No, no... im not saying i have done it, or that i would, i was simply asking for peoples opinions.

Poor Guy

If you mod a classic car engine i dont think you have to tell them, but if you do it doesnt cos any more.

pslewis

The 3rd party part of your Insurance will ALWAYS pay out ......... it's a legal requirement.

Where you lose is any claim on YOUR part - that will not be paid and you will be blacklisted/refused insurance.

If the mod is spotted and understood.

Pete

GC8

As Pete says; your insurers have to pay in the event of a claim. The commonly trotted-out notion of insurers refusing to pay is nonsense.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Pete is correct however there is a key element missing here. Not only will you be uninsurable in the future, if you are legally not covered because undeclared modifications the Insurer can pursue you for the losses.

Just because they have to pay out does not mean to say they will not try and recover their losses. In the case of an individual it could be your house or your car (well it would be if you had not made it more powerful than your talent and then crashed it )

Edited to add the main insurers do have access to a lot more expertise than you might imagine. There is one that I am aware of that has half a dozen blokes who specialise in this area who spend all day sitting around reading car and specialist tuning mags to offer expert opinion on underwriting.

Rannoch

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

what, like a non standard backbox?

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Correct.

Insurance always pays out for third party claims.....Even a drunk driver who totals a poor innocent's car, their insurance will pay out for the damage to the thrid party but not to the policy holder's car.

doug2507

iTrader: (6)

Not true. You need to declare mod's on a classic just like modern day cars and in some instances, produce an engineer's report to go with it. Talking from experience.

mart360

exactly like a non standard backbox.

lets face it they dont payout your half, who looses them... nope .. you.. screwd for life..

Mart

f1sh4u

What if you bought a car and genuinly thought it was standard, but it wasn't, and you go caught out? I am not suggesting that you could use that as an excuse, but i am sure not lots of people could by a car and good faith that it was standard without having to knowledge to tell if it wasn't.

midget1500

poor guy - you do need to declare the mods. i declared all the mods on my car, didn't put up the insurance too much but well worth the extra considering the car has x3 the power

Poor Guy

if you declare the mods with my insurance company it doesn cost bugger all anyways so doesnt harm to tell them. sometimes though, they havent got a damn clue. "yeah, i have new carbs on there" "new what?" "SU's instead of strombs" "errrrr, ok"

Fuzz

Also agree with Doug.
been there, done that with past modified old vehicels of mine.


Andy

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I doubt they care on classics as a broken down 77 bhp motor is about the same as a broken down 67 bhp motor.

Its all a bit mad as you can get standard cars that produce well over standard, the archeypal 'good un' and tuned cars that make less than standard, witness the old exotics on TG the other week, one was only making 86 bhp, I wonder if the converse is true and they will give you a refund because your car is under performing ?

Is yours all sorted now PG ?

pslewis

Wrong thread my friend .... keep up

Pete

Dracoro

RE: Will they check?

Depends on the car and their suspicions. Cars that they probably WILL check:-
Scoobs (so many are modded, they WILL check imo)
Anything sporty
Anything with other mods
Anything with a turbo

Cars they probably wouldn't check:-
Bog standard cars, mondeos etc. owned by joe public type people.
Luxury cars - rolls, lexus, big german cars (not your sporty ones, see above) as these sort of cars rarely attract modders.

Doesn't matter what car ultimately as they may check or may not. Some companies may check as a matter of course (esp in this day and age in the 'chip' culture) and some may only do so if they think they have reason to.

Either way, not worth the risk. Too much to lose and everything to gain by not informing them (bar a few quid in some cases).

bob r

iTrader: (46)

a couple of years ago the missuses car was written off and taken to a garage...oh f*** i thought . there is a ........... fitted which isnt declared on the insurance. i removed it sharpish before the assessor got there but learnt a lesson. declare all

OllyK

This is an interesting point. I have, since I bought my scoob, found out it has the Pro-drive Handling Pack on it. The garage were unaware and didn't say anything to me about it at the time. OK, it doesn't make it faster or more likely to be stolen as it takes some in depth knowledge to know it is there. Would that matter with it being an "official" modification? I don't know, but I suspect the insurance would use it as an excuse if they could.

lampshade

What about a remap? TBH I dont see how an insurance company could find out if you had this done to the car?

BTW all mods declared on my car

mart360

its quite simple,

obtain from your manufacturer a standard set of traces for the standard factory map,
then have your ecu interrogated and compare the two,

if they differ your bu**erd

Mart

bren.wright

I had an accident in my 106 a couple of years ago, most of the modifications were declared but somewhere not, just kept forgetting to inform them.

The car was heavily modified (not chavved up) and I was worried about what the assesor would say, he took a quick look around the car and didn't give a monkeys, he never mentioned anything.

I suppose it depends what it is. If it's something like an ECU remap I would not bother, they will never find out and they won't go to the effort to find out either. It depends what insurance company you are with as well. Adrian Flux and HIC are good for modifications but some of the mainstream ones will charge you an extra £300 a year for a poxy air filter of back box.

Andy S.

I bought a 325i a few years ago and took it into the dealers complaining it felt a bit flat!! they test drive it and had it on the rolling road. Then informed me when I came to pick it up that i must have been joking as it was the fastest 325ithey had driven due tho the fact it had a M tech ecu in it and instead of 193bhp it was 260bhp!! They also told me that it had the ECU from new (all this was on the BMW service computer network. I had then to tell my insures who wanted the princely sum of £30 to upgrade my insurance. It was a nice bonus to find out though!

stiscooby

What about a JDM car?

Looking at getting a Blobeye JDM car, how would the insurance company know exactly what the car comes with as standard. I mean they all come with gold alloys, but are they the same as the UK std wheels? Would they know the JDM cars come with the twin scroll turbo?

And say the car had a ECUTEK remap for example, could they tell/would they check?

StudentScooby

My insurance never paid out once because i had an exhaust and filter

hades

guaranteed to be a lot more expensive and harder to insure because it's an import, even if you left it standard.

Some of it is down to reasonable-ness. For example, technically, if you put in Halfords brake pads, they aren't what the car was supplied with - so could be considered a modification! However, insurers are unlikely to follow that route. If you have 6-pot brembos, they probably would.

My car is declared as full exhaust, ECU remap etc, but say I haven't specifically declared an updated panel filter or a Samco hose or something. As I've declared and am paying for the power-hike (and have informed them of the total bhp) they aren't likely to get excited. If I didn't declare any mods, they'd have every right to complain.

little-ginge

I had a small (ish) prang a few years back. Because the resulting damage was quite expensive, the assessor went over my car with a fine tooth comb - i don't 'mod' my cars so he had a wasted afternoon

It's easy to say, remove any mods before the assessor gets there, but realistically, if you have a heavily modded car, surely this wouldnt be possible?

Personally, I'd rather not run the risk of being caught out - you'd pay big time in the long run - is it worth it?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

In the British legal system there are many pleas that you can offer - ignorance is not one of them. The responsibility to declare lies with you.

That is a very sweeping statement that is not entirely true. It is true that not everyone insures them - find the right insurer and you will pay a small premium depending on your driver history.

doug2507

iTrader: (6)

i know of a person that filied a claim for they're type r and got sod all because they had an aftermarket airfilter on and had not declared it. Car was a write off.

J4CKO - There's a big difference between a std 1275 a series and a modded 1400 with a KAD head sitting on top. The one with a KAD head will push out 180bhp and leave your scooby for dead at the lights. Even when retaining the std look of the original engine, you can squeeze 125-130bhp out of them. (su's). Doesnt matter what type of car or age, IMHO, declare all. Sometimes the insurance company will not be bothered about some mods but its a good idea to let them know and decide themselves if they are significant enough to put up your premium. Whilst changing brakes or sticking in a roll cage dont make the car go faster, they indicate that you will be using it for purposes other than 'normal' road use. Sorry for ranting.......

Doug.