AC1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...643504,00.html


The transcript

The following is a recording of a three-way conversation that took place between a soldier in a watchtower, an army operations room and Capt R, who shot the girl

From the watchtower "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward." "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?" "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." "I think that one of the positions took her out." "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

From the operations room "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot from one of the army posts

Watchtower "I think that one of the positions took her out."

Captain R "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Capt R then "clarifies" why he killed Iman

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."


How long can the Israelis can get away with atrocities like these?

OllyK

Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are innocents in all this. Both have their fair share of blood on their hands. Until both sides stop retaliating and start talking it will continue.

AC1

True, but when you think about it, no wonder the Palestinians resorted to suiside bombing, when their own childs/people getting slaughted by the Israelis hi-tech warlfare, ffs they use helicopter gunships and tanks against people who barely have the means to live.

Not condoning suiside bombings though, I can understand the despair and desperations, but like you I believe if they are willing to start talking and make some concessions both sides peace can be in place.

CrisPDuk

There is a flip side to that statement. No wonder the Isrealis are resorting to shooting kids, they're growing up and jumping on schoolbuses in Semtex waistcoats

_RIP_

I think there has been about one case of a child, a boy of perhaps 14 doing this. I cannot think of an occasion whan a child as young as 10 has been considered a threat. Perhaps SN knows more though. I have never heard of a child jumping on a bus with a "semtex waistcoat". Again I bow to the wisdom of scoobynetters if I am wrong.

rr_ww

I can well imagine certain factions placing a bomb in a 10 year olds schoolbag though.

Martyr's are heros

Its a bloody great mess, and even when Israel pulls back a bit they still get bombed.

GC8

It beggars belief doesnt it? Two years ago an Isreali soldier shot my friends boyfriend as he helped a number of frightened Palestinian children (who were being fired upon) to safety. The c*nt who shot him in the head claimed that he was a Palestinian terrorist about to throw a grenade, despite his being very English in appearance and wearing a flourescent jacket. For nearly a year afterwards the Isreali state obstructed his family before a soldier was finally prosecuted.....

AC1

Remember that! Very unfortunate and sad story, he died of doing something very honorable and brave IMO.

GC8

He did, and it was very sad. I didnt know Tom personally, but it was a tragedy. What is a bigger tragedy is that incidents like this happen regularly there. The IDF seemd to have adopted a policy of killing peace protesters in Gaza. Rachel Corrie was run over by a bulldozer shortly before and several people were shot afterwards; one a respected television journalist shot in a military drive-by whilst filming.....

Simon

King RA

How can there ever be peace with this sort of thing going on? It will only end with one of them being destroyed.

CrisPDuk

I didn't say children were doing it, I said that's what they want to do when they grow up, and yes, buses full of schoolkids have been the palestininan's target of choice for years

As I've said before, the stated aim of the Israeli's is to have a land of their own. The stated aim of the rest of the region is to wipe all jews from the face of the earth, a bit of an uneven playing field IMO, and to be honest I struggle to find any sympathy with the Palestinian 'cause'.

AC1

I may be wrong but I can't remember any suside bombers targeting school buses? Most of the bombing was targeting cafe, nightclubs, partol points etc from the ones I remember.


Uneven playing fields? Hmmm some how when I see news on television the Israelis are in their tanks and helicopters against Palastinians armed with nothing more than rocks or AK47s.

Can't understand the Palestinian cause? Well imagine USA and the allies decided to carve up your own country and have a new country set within bound just because the bible said its thier 'land', then suffer from discrimnation and poverty and live in 'refugee' camps where a army would come in and shoot the place up, and once in while the bulldozers will come and knock your house down just because they suspect there's tunnels running underneath them etc.

One day though the conflict will be resolve peacfully, I hope, but if the politicans including the US tried and failed for so many years I can't see it happenning soon.

Brit_in_Japan

If you read the article you'll see the girl had dropped her bag (which the soldiers then pumped a couple of rounds into to see if it was a bomb) and had then ran away "defensively" and was hiding, scared to death, behind an embankment.

In what way could she be said to be still a danger which warrented putting 3 bullets into her head at close range, and another 15 bullets into her body?

It seems an utterly indefensible act to me, compounded by the Israeli administration apparently condoning this type of behaviour.

Leslie

Shameful.

Les

davegtt

Bomb them all

ozzy

Whether one side is as bad as another, something like this should not be tolerated or accepted by anyone with a decent sense of morals.

Israeli's may have a military reason for treating anyone as a potential hostile and the Palestinians are wrong to use any kids to fight, but I for one think that shooting a 10yr-old kid just isn't right.

That conflict is so f***ed up anything goes. I just wish the West would get on their high-horse as much with that conflict as they do with the Middle-East.

Scooby Roo

Put my pennies worth in....

GC8 tragic waste sorry

On the subject of the 10 year old girl she was in a free fire zone which basically meant that if you were there your a target no matter what. So she must have had some idea that she was in trouble and the watchtower reacted as so. Terrorism takes many guises and in that situation I'm sorry to say but you can't take chances.

Not sure about the school bus situation but many a public transport bus has been targeted.

Isn't it fantatsic just how hypocritical relegion really is.

Roo

CrisPDuk

Actually the partition of 'Palestine' was nothing to do with the USA, we, the, British have to hold our hands up and accept responsibility for that one. If you bothered know your history, you would know that Jordan is just as much a Palestinian homeland (and was intended to be just that in the 1948 partition) but somehow the rest of the arab world managed to stand by whilst King Hussein seized control and evicted them, funny how that little bit of history seems to be overlooked isn't it?

There has never been a land called Palestine, just as there has never been a Kurdish homeland, or Romany for that matter. The extremists have just found the Palestinian cause to be a convenient platform from which to further their campaign of extermination of the Jews.


A good case in point, after much pressure from the West, including the US, the Israelis recently evacuated the Gaza Strip, within 48hrs of it being re-occupied by Palestinians, rocket attacks were being mounted over the border If they can't help themselves, they deserve no ****** elses help

dtriggs

As ever - amazingly blinkered attitudes by some.

The USA of course were involved in the Partition - they were instrumental in the decision of where the Jews should be put. But why should a religious group deserve their own country ?

But that is history so no use in this argument. The situation now is that both sides do horrible things. But the Israelis have access to the best modern weapons from the USA. The Palestinians have bugger all. The Israelis have a country with an infrastructure so should be setting an example. Their constant retaliation is getting nothing except more deaths. How can you judge Palestinians until they have their own country ? That doesnt mean a few bits of land with big walls preventing movement between them. It means a real country with borders. Then Israel could build the biggest wall they pleased. Israel need to set the example.

On top of that many Israelis want all Muslims/Palestinians dead, and many Palestinians want to live in peace with Israel as a close neighbour. But it's also a case that there are many muslim Israelis, and many others who want to be. There is a ridiculous blurring of religion with nationality.

Peace will only come when those in power (Israel) really commit to it.

GC8

Including you.

Adam M

Am not convinced that many israelis want all palestinians dead. They are not raised to hate the palestinians, but they live in fear of the terrorist attacks. The palestinian's situation sees them instructed from day one to hate the jews (not just the israelis).

I hate the way it is all about religion, and nationality is forgotten.

The jewish state was set up to give the jewish people a homeland where they can feel free after the second world war where so called free countries in europe saw them stripped of all possessions then sent off to death camps with no rights.

If the palestinians are so poor, then why is it that arafat's widow died a multi milllionairess and had to be paid off to not lay a claim the fortune and now lives in Paris on an income of $120k per month? abject poverty that is!

Luan Pra bang

If all palestinians are raised to hate Jews why did the parents of a Palestinian child murderd by Israeli soldiers donate his organs to Israeli children ?

Its a complex problem between Palestine and Isreal but if you want to start applying blame the Israelis have alot to answer for.

AC1

What a pathetic comment and logic, for your information Israel GNI per capita is US$17,380 for 2004, compared to Palestinians of US$1,120 for 2004.

CrisPDuk

How can you write such a complete load of bollocks and still accuse me of being Blinkered I refer you to my previous posts, as far as I am aware no Israeli government has EVER demanded the complete eradication of Islam. Most Arab nations have however stated there aim to remove the jewish scourge forever, some as recently as this year.

As to the weapons situation, thanks to the Syrians, Iranians, Egyptians etc the palestinians have had access to the best weaponry the former USSR could provide.

Finally, a question you have now ducked on two occasions .If the palestinians are so desparate to live in peace with their Israeli neighbours, why, every time Israel withdraw from contested land, do the Palestinians use that land to launch missile, rocket & mortar attacks into Israeli territory.

Leslie

What has religion got to do with it Scooby Roo?

Les