talizman

iTrader: (1)

After years of not really knowing what I'm doing at the gym I've decided its time to structure my workouts for optimum gains.

So, at them moment I just kind of do all of the machines with a medium weight for 3-4 sets of ten. Dead scientific eh?

Basically I only need an upper body workout as my legs get sufficient through my TKD training.

I'm not wanting to put on loads of weight or have a bodybuilders physique, I simply want to tone up, improve definition and improve strength and endurance.

So, am I right in saying that the areas are split into -:
1) chest,
2) shoulders,
3) arms (bi's and tri's),
4) abs
5) back (should this be split upper and lower?)

Which areas can be worked together at the same session for maximum benefit?

Should I avoid working any of the areas at the same session?

I intend to split my week into 3 sessions each of around 2 hours, is this sufficient including cardio for my goal? At the moment I aim for 40 mins cardio per workout, leaving over an hour for weights.

If anyone "in the know" cares to give me an example of how the 3 sessions could be structured, I'd be most grateful!

Also, how do you calculate which weight to use and how many sets/reps for maximum benefit?

Cheers in advance

Deep Singh

Good questions. I'd be interested in some 'expert' opinion. I tend to do 30 mins cardio(I'm an ex smoker!) and then 1 hour of weights. This is usually 3-4 sets of 6-8 reps as I like to retain a little bulk.

Tiggs

"I'm not wanting to put on loads of weight or have a bodybuilders physique,"

lol....penny for everytime i've heard that. Its like walking into golf shop and saying "dont give me your best clubs, i dont want to be beating Tiger Woods"

Brendan Hughes

Shouldn't that be "dont give me your best clubs, I'm not paid like Tiger Woods"?

turbotroll

Personally, for an upper body workout, I'd do something like this:

Bench press
Lat rows
Shoulder Press
Pulldowns
Back extension
Ab crunches

1-3 worksets after warm-up sets (again 1-3), for around 6-10 reps (2x20 reps for back & abs). The first four exercises utilise every plane of motion in regards to the shoulder girdle, promotoing balance. I wouldn't bother with direct arm work, or other isolation exercises, as the above exercises, if worked hard, should be more than enough. Saying that, you could also throw in a rotator cuff exercise & some side bends.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

lol, I mean it, honestly!

I've been a member of a gym for about ten years and I was wanting to grow, I'd have tried it before now!

Anyway, my chosen sport isn't conducive to bulk!

I genuinely want to tone up, get some definition and endurance.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Cheers Turbo troll,

Excuse the ignorance..... but whats a back extension?

Do you work all of the body parts in the same session, as I've heard quite a few folk say this isn't the best idea?

dij

If youve been doing training for so long then you will probably know the answers to all the questions you asked.

The higher the repetitions- the more toned/shaped the muscles will become
the lower the reps (normally with heavier weight)-the bigger the muscles become

No pain no gain ( or is it more pain more gain?)

train one section on each session and rest it for at least 3 days for greater mass,train a group at a time with only a day rest between for greater stamina and more toned/peeked muscles.

Impossible to get big without really trying hard(lol @ comments on getting TOO big)

Is TKD Tae Kwang doe? if so ,then dont you think it would be better to use natural resistance or gravity with your own body weight in your exercise?

much better if you can do 20 long arm chin ups,100 press ups or 200 sit ups, than pulling down a cable with weights attached IMO.

turbotroll

They look like this:

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/back.extension.html

Your gym may have a 'roman chair' in which to do them, or they might have a machine version.

Regarding working all the upper body parts in one session, I see no reason why not. When I first started training *properly*, I trained on the routine I listed twice per week for the first four months, usually Monday & Thursday (including squats, deadlifts & calf raises also), switching to once per week thereafter. You can look into a 'push-pull' routine, for example; train chest, delts, tri's (bench press, shoulder press) one day - these are the 'push exercises'. For the next session (leaving a 2 day gap), train Lats, teres, rear delt, traps & bi's using the 'pull exercises' (lat pulldown, lat row).

D8MNS@R

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/ ave a look ere everythihg you need to know just ask..top bunxch of guys..

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Cheers Turbotroll


Dij,

Yes TKD is Tae Kwon-Do.

I know what you mean about resistance training and that has been a large part of my routine since the age of 12, but there are some exercises which are hard to replicate without weights and/or machines.... lat row, tricep dips, shoulder press etc etc.

Cheers for the advice guys, keep it coming

SteA

Without being rude, and this isnt aimed at you personally, but these are the misconceptions so generally popularized my the media and believed by most.

The higher the reps, the more toned a muscle? An increase in muscle tone is generally referred to as hypertonus, with the two most common forms being referred to as spasticity and rigidity, it has nothing to do with the number of press ups you can do...........

Quite often muscle strength can be quite unrelated to muscle size, you need only look at professional track and field athletes weighing around 70 kg and compare them to hypertrophied 100 kg + professional rugby players in various core lifts, the strength of lots of small athletes who train for exactly that, strength and power is outstanding and far outshadows that of heavier athletes. No one knows yet what the exact signals are for muscle growth but there are many factors involved and the increase in muscle bulk/size can actually happen in several different ways depending on the exact training stresses. To make things more complicated not only do different people respond in different ways, but different muscles respond in different ways to different exercises. This whole area has been the subject of 1000's of pieces of research and is far from simple.

Things that may be suggested from current research.....

Higher intensity / weights (4-6 RM), longer rest periods (2 - 5 minutes) and less fatigue tend to increase strength with a lesser effect on size.

Bodybuilders tend to use a lower intensity (6-12 RM) but a much higher volume (30-70 sets per session) with lower rest periods (1-2 mins) between sets. This tends to work well for increasing muscle size with the majority of individuals.

The mistake most people make is to train too much / too frequently. If you think about it, we tend to have a period following training where our physical performance decreases (1) , this is then followed by peak where we can perform at a higher level (2) which is followed again by a decrease in physical performance (3). Its quite clear we always want to train again at (2) so we can train at ever increasing levels and encourage our bodies to continually adapt. This gives an indication why bodybuilding is often as much art as science, different muscles go through this period in a different time so finding the exact "mix" with so many different exercises is difficult to say the least.

A start would be to carefully monitor your progress with the same form and exercises, examining the impact of different rest periods between specific training sessions etc etc.

A lot of this is broad generalisation, but journals like the journal of applied physiology and the journal of strength and conditioning research contain numerous interesting articles that address specific circumstances.

Varboy

you have to remember that different methods work for different people, but in essence, if you keep it as simple as possible you will not go wrong.

I feel like I'm teaching Granny to suck eggs here!

Just remember to train as intensely as possible and make sure your diet is top notch. You have to eat lots of protein if you want to grow.

Have a look on http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/, I have been on this board for a couple of years and there are loads of people with solid advice.

in summary SIMPLICITY & INTENSITY = RESULTS

Deep Singh

Turbo,

Do you mean pulldown in front of chest or behind?

Shoulder press with free weights or machine?

Thanks

Deep Singh

The dips people talk about on muscle talk is that dips on the bars? I thought that would exercise your arms, and how do you weight those?

Thanks

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

dips dont just do your arms they do your chest as well

Deep Singh

Where do you put the weights?

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

its the exercise that does your chest, but if you want to make it harder you can put a weight around your neck makes for more fun

SeanT

The weights are attached to a belt of some kind and hung around your neck hence adding weight while you dip......

And I can vouch for Muscletalk, its an excellent forum........

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

The key point being missed is diet! you can train till the cows come home but if you are not eating the right foods you will see no improvements. What body type are you?

ectomorph - hard gainer
endomorph - easy to gain weight but hard to lose it
mesomorph - a genetic marvel!

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

what sort of gym do you go to, you tie a rope around the weight and hang it around your neck

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Its called a prison!

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

strange name for a gym

SPEN555

lol!

Dips weighted are normally done with a dipping/chinning belt and it has a chain to attach plates or dumbells to.

p.s. Don't forget your legs you might end up looking like a chicken and catch bird flu!

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I propose to structure the sessions as follows -:

Day 1 (monday)
40 mins cardio
chest - bench press, db flys, incline press
arms - tricep pushdown, tricep extensions, db/bb curls
abs - crunches, leg raises

Day 2 (thursday)
40 mins cardio
back - lat pulldowns/lat pullups, upright row, single arm bend over db row
shoulders - presses, side db raises, front db raises
abs - as above

Day 3 (Saturday)
40 mins cardio
Legs (light endurance stuff)
abs - as above

I intend to do 4 sets of each exercise of 6-8 reps or until exhaustion!

We'll see how it goes, but I guess its all in vain with my current diet..... should probably look at that also.....

seven x

If I was you i would do the cardio after the weights.

Turbohot

Deep Singh

Why is that? I noticed some people do cardio after weights and vice versa. Whats the difference?

dij

I used to do some cardio after weights,I found it helped to releive some of the tension and aches that i would get the next day.
I think it helps to clear laktic acic and gives your muscles a stretch.
Not sure what the science is behind it all but it did work for me.

Ofcourse,everybody will have different results depending on their genetics etc (or what type of morph you are),best to try things out to see what you feel most comfortable with,just making sure you dont over do it and if anything feels strange then stop.

I suppose its a bit like a scooby.warm up drive hard,but dont kill it,warm down,use good oils/fuel etc,and all should be fine (unless your body is fitted with a Muff(sensor)in which case you might have a heart attack and die whilst you feel your strongest).

What are you going for Talizman?
Looks,speed,power,fighting ability?just out of interest

rgv_stu

so whats my best plan for loosing bulk ??
i go to the gym 2 / 3 times a week , use virtually every machine , cycle ride 2 / 3 times a week. im natuarlly bulky and i have a hard time loosing weight. basically i want to get rid of my belly and man breasts and tone up making me look thinner