Petem95

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4366438.stm

1st of 3 being sent to help.... thats 3

How many are in Iraq I wonder? Does seem like a bit of a half-hearted effort, Im sure we couldve sent a few dozen, a hell of a lot of people need help out there - I dont see 3 having a great impact...

Taff107

How many would Pakistan send here, do you think?

CooperS

3 is better than 0

kammy

Being a Pakistany (!) that is great from the UK. Pakistan themselves are fools-they rejected Indias help, as they offered to send over a few planes but of course with their pilots. Pakistan insisted on using their pilots to fly Indian planes-the offer fell through. *****.
Kam

Frosty The Snowman

I was particularly impressed with President Musharraf saying the aid was totally inadequate....well a thanks would have been nice. I not saying that we shouldn't do everything we can to help but there are limits to what we can do. Refusing aid from India for ANY reason is not smart now is it when you're criticising people for not helping enough.

The Zohan

Kammy - that is a sad tale and the only people who get hurt are the ones that need the help not the polititians.
I do not claim to understand all of the issues between Pakistan and India - i know something of Kasmir and the problems of 'ownership' but you would think in times if great need that differences would be put aside for the greater good of the people.

We have donated all of our spare clothing, kids and adult stuff including winter clothes to the appeal via Oxfam and i hope they do some good for the people who need them.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

30% of our Chinook fleet is t*t's up at the mo. 30% in Iraq and the rest around the word. So much for the peace dividend and left wing duffle coat wearing PC do gooder's cutting defence. I hear flak coming!!!!!

Simon S3

Really, they replaced the Chinook with Merlin in Iraq last time I was there?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Whatever, it is too little too late. Wouldn't it be good if there was a genuine and constructive, focused well led effort, sanctioned by our government at the highest level, to help these poor people out before the ravages of winter.

Flatcapdriver

But that's about normal, surely. I was told that of the 12 in the UK, at any one time there would be about a third down for maintenance.

PG

If they are willing to turn aid down and want to pick and chose who they take from, **** 'em.

kilo_4que

well Mr Taff, they would have sent none as they have none. And pakistan is known for its peace missions around the world, one of the major players in sending its troops out places such as Sierra Leone (spelling) in peace keeping missions. If your trying to imply that Pakistan is just an ungreatful git who wants people to help them but doesnt do so in return well just readu p some history as of 1947. Just remember what happened in if i remember correctly 1993, the US and Somalia. It was Pakistan that went to help, no one else wanted to help but pakistan.

So please in future rather than post your hate towards the Pakistanis, please do add the real reason why you have such a sour taste against them.

And Pg, why dont you *** yourself, since when did they turn aid down. If i recall it was the BBC who said pakistan refused aid from their rivals india hwoever this was untrue as they accepted plane loads of aid from them. Clown, base ure claims on facts n stop talking out of your a$$ 247

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Do you feel the love for the asians in the room

danwrx1980

there are only 33 chinooks in the british forces anyway, and as mentioned before, a lot of them are off the road at the moment due to cost cuts and the like.

Taff107

Oi kilo, I asked a question - end of. Get off your high horse.

kilo_4que

yes i thought i heard that the british had chinooks in double figures only but they must be adequate for the British forces otherwise im sure they would have inducted more. The british military has a no nonsense approach where it would buy equipment it requires. When looking at other countries built up of strong F-16 , F15 and F-18 squadrons, one thinks that the british military is lacking behind with its predominate Tornados and Harriers, however they look at things al ittlem ore strategically hence the reason after so long they have finally inducted the Typhoon, of course the delay in project was not part of their idea.

kilo_4que

sorry for misunderstanding your post mate,

Reffro

I've got another question, how much of the $5bn aid Pakistan wants, would they already have, if they weren't paying out to develop nuclear weapons?

kilo_4que

Let me ask, why did you never ask the same question when India was seeking aid for the Gujrat Earthquakes, maybe its pakistan we should all point fingers at huh. I mean India also has a nuclear programs, for heck it has a bigger economy than Pakistan, and the catstrophe wasnt anywhere near what has happened in Pakistan (note which has had some effects on india too).

Consequently, Pakistan finds its nuclear program to be a mainstay as survival of the fittest and regarding the 5 billion, im sure that isnt a very accurate figure however im very sure that the money we are talking about has been put to use in rescue efforts and all other means of aid within its country. Otherwise, I find your question rather misleading in that it sounds as though ure pointing a finger at pakistan as taking part in fraud i.e. asking for more aid and money when it could fend for itself. My friend im sure no country would go so low in such situations where 50,000 people have been reported dead

One thing i dont understand, what is it you want from Pakistan. U ask such indirect questions, I mean what do you want them to tell you in return. Why dont you speak your minds out rather than act like pussies and drop cheeky hints as to what your TRYING to imply.

Tell us straight that u dont like pakistan, tell us straight that cos you dont like them, you accuse them of being fraudulent, tell them your not happy with their nuclear program yet you are happy other countries such as America, Irael and India have nuclear programs. And tell them that you cant bare the fact that they dont give a rats *** wot u think

A little harsh this post may seem to some, but as a british pakistani the attitude of some stinks. Even worse is that predominately none of them expose their real feelings about pakistanis or muslims for that matter however hold such filth inside.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

For the minority of scoobynet racists please feel free to vent you're feelings towards Pakistan, asians, muslims and just about everything that does not agree with you're idea of the perfect society.
ffs we are all human at the end of day, a tradgedy like this shows how inhumane most of us are. We only care when it happens on our own doorstep and not some far flung corner of the earth.

Dieseldog

I'm surprised more has not appeared to have been done by the West, if only to keep the Pakistan Govt. on side and to win hearts / minds in what is a difficult region of a difficult part of the world. An opportunity missed?

kilo_4que

well i dont think one should be giving aid with that frame of mind. Humanity is as such that in cases of natural disasters everyone needs to come together and help one another. I know i keep referring to this example but it is the best example though Pakistan and India are very harsh enemies although they are having some warmer relationships as of late. In the Gujrat Earthquake pakistan sent a few C130s full of aid. Not because they wanted india to become friends or vice versa but more the fact that it was something that had to be done. A country has been hit by mother nature, and one needs to help. Conseqentyl, that is the gesture pakistan is expecting from others. Not to do it for name and fame, but for humanities sake. There were women, children, elders, white, black, asian, muslims christian, hindu, sikh, everyone that had suffered in this earthquake, i dont find a reason someone would want to pull their foot back and start asking question at a time where actions are required. But of course we get the idiots here n there

Ken 275

Quite a lot of informed reading in this thread.

Good stuff!

To return to the original Chinook issue, I hope that they (RAF) have the navigation software sorted ie. Mull of Kintyre.

Look it up if you don't remember / not born.

A total travesty and and a classic example of non-tactical thinking.

K.

Dieseldog

Of course, it's better to give aid in the spirit of true altruism. However, the actualite is that it's all about politics. There's usually going to be a payback sought, and looking at what's going on in Afghanistan, here's an area of the world the West could do with cultivating some ties with.

kilo_4que

Yeah true, i mean Politics plays a major role and although its hard to swollow it is required I admit. However I personally feel it shouldnt be that way. though we are Mr nobodies and the big players know how to play their games well.

Ken, yes we should get back to the topic of the Chinooks. One thing i wondered is, didnt the RAF rely on the Chinooks for training purposes and were they not planned to being grounded. Im sure I read it somewhere, if i recal correctly it was on Janes. Maybe im wrong but please could you clarify this with me

Ken 275

Ken, yes we should get back to the topic of the Chinooks. One thing i wondered is, didnt the RAF rely on the Chinooks for training purposes and were they not planned to being grounded. Im sure I read it somewhere, if i recal correctly it was on Janes. Maybe im wrong but please could you clarify this with me[/QUOTE]

Where I stay is close to the River Clyde & Faslane Naval Base; where I work is directly on the river. Even when I'm in my lab (not dog!) I can hear these things flying past, they're quite distinctive. They tend to use the Clyde as a navigational aid as all they have to watch out for is the Erskine Bridge.

The inquiry into the crash I related to was a total cop out IMO. There had been problems for years with the Nav aids but the main STUPID thing was to have so many high ranking counter-terrorist experts in the one craft.

D'oh.

The software is pi-ash but they won't admit to it as it cost so much to develop and result in liability claims from the Servicemen etc.

I'm not going to get political, but is it not just common sense not to put all your eggs in one basket? Especially a shakey one.

They are still "Whooping" about, you should have heard the traffic during the recent G8 at Gleneagles!

Airforce 1 (& 2) were at Prestwick Airport at the same time, but that's another tale.

K.

kilo_4que

lol true, rather questionable as to why so many high ranking personal are shuvved in one chinook

turboman786

3 chinhooks is better than none, but still a very lame token gesture.....att the end of the day the UK managed to send thousands of troops to KILL in Iraq, when Iraq had done **** all to us, yet we can only muster a handful of troops to HELP innocents in Pakistan, a country which has bent its subservient *** over backwards to help the so called 'war on terror', I hope Musharraf is proud that he is now reaping the rewards of his 'special relationship' with his paymasters in London and Washington.

By the way Im not being anti British, far from it, just telling it how it is.

Ken 275

It's getting too political & O/T now.

Time for a separate thread.

I'm off.

K.

kilo_4que

ok mods i think it is also going a little wayward, best just remove it or lock it