SJ_Skyline

Has anybody got a take on this?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

When I was in France during the summer, the regional paper "Le Sud-Ouest" ran an article about this, giving both sides of the story.

Apparently, the French governemnt are very "anti" Turkey joining, and from what I could understand from the article, they pointed out that present, and projected populations for Turkey would mean that they could outvote the rest of Europe in very short time. Being as they are mainly Muslim too, this MAY not be in the best interests of the rest of Europe.

Remember, this is NOT my take, it's the French governemnt's.

HOWEVER: the very fact that Dubya is pushing for Turkey to be allowed to join, makes me deeply suspicious, so my answer would have to be "NO"!

Alcazar

BTW: is Dubya's pro-vote the reason Poodle Tone wants them in too?

TelBoy

Saturday's The Independent had it as their front-page story, Rich. FWIW, they were quite definitely in favour. I'm less convinced, but don't see too many valid arguments against.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I doubt the Greek Cypriates (sp) are'nt too keen

SJ_Skyline

This is the reason I ask - I haven't seen any of the right questions being asked. In fact I haven't seen any questions being asked!! The whys and the whats spelling out why it should be a good or bad thing, what are the implications, etc etc. Turkey not officially recognising Cyprus may prove a major sticking point for the pro camp.

Petem95

What advantage is there to current members of Turkey joining??? None.

Oh we can give yet more money away to another poor country, and in return have a Muslim country in the EU who will be at odds with most Western policy, and just create more problems than we have already.

unclebuck

The reason they want them in is because they have a large army that the west can exploit in the Middle East as a 'peacekeeping' force. In other words to deal with the current situation caused by Bush and Blair.

TelBoy

Pete, you didn't read that Independent article, did you?

Or if you did, on what basis do you refute their observations?

zakk

what does their religion have to do with it? if germany won the last war they'd give the same reasons for their objections. then again what else can we expect from the same people who brought blockbusters like "the headscarff ban!!" and the critically acclaimed le front national's success in france's general elections! bunch of amphibious tossers.

as for dubya, he just wants to use turkey to attck syria/iran or any other middle eastern country he can get his grubby hands on, then again he might just be planning to take their natural resources.

remember guys, you heard it hear first.

Flatcapdriver

Long term it would help to bring stability to the Middle East by integrating (on a political level) a Muslim country with that of the West which is why Bush is so keen on the idea because it then becomes an extension of US policy without the US having to pay for it. In other words, in much the same way that Ireland's economy has boomed in recent times due to them being a net beneficiary of the EU (more income than contribution) Turkey would benefit similarly but whether the rest of Europe would see a return contribution is open to debate.

It would also give access to the advanced economies of Europe (UK, Germany, France etc) to a cheap labour pool that could be utilised seasonally and help to bring costs down and in some instances offset the loss of jobs to cheaper third world economies. Whatever your take on immigration, the UK needs cheap immigrant labour provided it is legal and contributing to the growth of our economy.

From a defence standpoint, it would strengthen ties that already exist and extend the buffer between East and West as well as offsetting the criticism from the East regarding the bias towards Israel.

That's just off the top of my head so if you open up your eyes and take off the blinkered attitude you can see that there are potential benefits.

zakk

oh and yes they should join, theyre a huge country, geographically vital as the gateway to the east and have a whopping great army. the uk had and still has an uneasy relationship with the republic of ireland (im refering to the troubles in n.ireland), that wasnt a reason to exclude either of them.

if turkey were allowed to join they would be obliged to at least recognise cyprus diplomatically and thats a start! as for the cyprus argument, i didnt know scoobynet had members of the cypriot liberation front!!

besides even if they wernt allowed to join, we'd still have the english pound and the petrol prices wouldnt rocket so the consequences of the turkey-cyprus rivalry would not constitute a valid anti- turkey argument.

Brendan Hughes

Another brutal argument I read was that it was a large workforce able to contribute to the ageing EU pensions...

zakk

That's just off the top of my head so if you open up your eyes and take off the blinkered attitude you can see that there are potential benefits.[/QUOTE]

finally!! someone with a coherent argument and good vision!!

Flatcapdriver

finally!! someone with a coherent argument and good vision!! [/QUOTE]
Then again, I did vote for the overwhelming indifference option.

22BUK

The fact that Jack Straw is pushing for all he is worth (not much IMHO) as well makes me deeply suspicious.

Anybody else see the poll that Sky News showed last night - 73% against.

TelBoy

^^ But that's a religious vote, without doubt. If they weren't mainly Muslim, the result would be vastly different, guaranteed.

Brendan Hughes

I have a curious hesitation based on something that has either been solved or ignored - simple geography. If it is a European Union, how do countries outside the continent of Europe join? (Though not sure what continent Turkey is in, come to think of it... Asia??). I think there are also requests from Morocco and Egypt to join, and the big question is Russia, which is clearly Europe on this side, but it means Europe would have a land border with China and a small strait between it and Alaska

RedFive

The discussion is not about being allowed to join or not, but about whether one should start negotiations. Something that's in the pipeline since 1961.

Turkey has met all requirements for the negotiations to start. The role the EU and especially Austria are currently playing is both insulting and farcical.

RedFive

They are on both continents. Bosphorus, remember ?

chiark

The real sticking point that I can't see how will be solved is Cyprus, which as I understand it Turkey has occupied since the invasion in 1973. Sure, things are starting to get a lot better on the island by all accounts, but I see it as being insurmountable. Mind you, Ireland and the UK are in the EU and there's a little bit of feeling about Northern Ireland so it might be possible...

RedFive

The Cyprus problem is a bit more complicated than that though. Don't forget the Greek government at that time was a dictatorship, and Turkey tried to protect their compatriots.

And the Turkish part of Cyprus did vote for the proposed UN solution lately, whereas the Greek part didn't.

Of course it has to be solved, but it was not a requirement posed by the EU to solve this before the negotiations started.

Luan Pra bang

1571 - 1878 Conquest of the island by the Ottoman Empire
1878 - 1925 In accordance with a defence-alliance between Britain and the Ottoman Empire, the administration of Cyprus passes to Britain
1925 - 1960 Cyprus is annexed by Britain when Ottoman Empire enters into the World War I on the side of Germany; subsequently the island becomes a Crown Colony and under the British rule
1960 Foundation of the Republic of Cyprus (by the Turkish and Greek-Cypriot communities)
1963 Inter-communal strife in Cyprus and the subsequent collapse of the constitutional rule
1974 Coup d'etat by the Greek army officers stationed on the island to overthrow the President (Makarios) with the aim of uniting the island with Greece; subsequent Turkish Military intervention (under the provisions of the Treaty of Guarantee of the Republic of Cyprus)
1974 Division of the island into Turkish-Cypriot North and Greek-Cypriot South
1975 Declaration of the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus, to pave way for a federal settlement on the island
1983 Foundation of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
1989 Application by the Greek-Cypriot South Cyprus for membership of Cyprus to European Union (without Turkish-Cypriot consent as required by the Constitution of the 'Republic of Cyprus')
2002-3 Dialogue and negotiations between Denktash & Klerides to unify the North & South before EU entry

RedFive

Latest... Turkey now ask for the US to intervene ... oh dear.