Cenobite

Pain, as we know, is a mechanism by which our body alerts us to damage and incentivises us to remove ourselves from the source of that damage by envoking extremely strong emotional and physical reactions within us.

But what if our rational selves can identify that the damage either doesn't exist or is actually part of improving one's situation, as opposed to worsening it.

An example of this could be surgery. Our rational self knows that the surgery is improving our situation yet our bodies tell us it is harming us. Another could be pain that is associated with no physical damage such as can be obtained from certain electric shocks, or neurological pain perhaps.

Can you withstand higher amounts of pain when you consider it to be of benefit to you?

I have noticed several threads recently on tattoos. Another example where your mind considers the outcome to be an improvement and hence you are able or willing to withstand the pain.

But what if the improvement is a mental state as opposed to an aesthetic improvement? What if you are seeking clarity of thought, the ability to displace yourself from your biological body or to accept the mortality of flesh? What sort of pain could you withstand for that?

BlkKnight

Is it me or is this a follow up from the Tweaky thread?

SJ_Skyline

pain leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering....

T4molie

lightning101

By definition, pain is a subjective and personal experience. So in that sense, pain is always "in our heads." We can't see pain on an X-ray, bone scan or blood test.

In the vast majority of cases, we can determine a cause for the pain. But in some cases, for example fibromyalgia, we can offer an explanation, but we can't cut it out and eliminate it.

It's difficult to remember that not all abnormalities cause pain and not all pain is associated with an abnormality. One example is a herniated disk. A significant number of people have herniated disks, but don't feel any pain.

Consequently, just because you have a herniated disk and are in pain, it doesn't necessarily mean that the herniated disk is the cause of the pain. Conversely, some people feel real pain where no physical abnormality can be detected.

In relatively rare cases, people unconsciously amplify their pain symptoms. Perhaps they have learned to get attention this way , or they have a job they don't like and don't want to return to it.

davegtt

Pain = something that hurts
Suffering = something that hurts over a long period of time....

Simple no?

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Interesting name

lightning101

I have to suffer the drivel of a cenobite, but it doesn't cause me any pain

Cenobite

Interesting stuff, but skirting around my questions somewhat.

Take another example, our friend Timothy and his "What have I done?" thread. The word "pain" is mentioned several times and presumably refers to emotional pain. But what does this mean in real terms?

To be comparitive let us ask how much physical pain he would be willing to experience in order to reverse his situation and get his wife back.

How much pain is your partner worth to you?

Miss Kinky

oh no back to Hellraiser again...

where is the border between pleasure and pain...

Bubba po

Just above the dado rail, usually in a contrasting colour. HTH.

lightning101

Emperor Hadrian built one in 1066

Bubba po

Yes, he marked it out with his crop-rotator. :nods:

Reality

Pain = Trying to find a wife

Suffering = Finding one

eClaire

I watched Paul McKenna help someone through labour using mind altering techniques to reduce 'pain'. It worked, apparently!

PS. Does your theory include childbirth?

Milamber

iTrader: (2)

Pain is character building.

Suffering is giving in to it.

KiwiGTI

Physical suffering includes pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death.

Psychological suffering is feelings like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression.

Pain is a form of physical suffering (Probably could be monitored by EECGS or something similar)

Reality

How is physical pain gonna help Tim get his imaginary wife back ?

Hello dear - I've cut off my **** with a pair of blunt scissors for you - will you take me back now ?

Spoon

Interestingly enough I had a dentist friend who fitted 4 crowns and the associated prep work plus a filling after hours as a favour really.

We got talking and as an experiment I would have the work done without any anaesthetic and as there were no patients about to worry about schedules I wasn't under any time limits for the procedure.

I guess I needed a few more breaks than had I been numbed but you really can think passed it, almost 'trance' like, and ignore the discomfort in the knowledge that it will be over in a short period of time.

Reality

I had 4 wisdoms out under local - not sure a trance would have saved the dentists life if the local hadn't worked .

The human body can resist huge amounts of pain - but why bother if you don't have to ?

Cenobite

Thank you for your response Spoon

Can I ask, what made you decide to participate in this experiment and how did you feel at the time. Fear? Excitement? Did you enjoy the anticipation?

How about afterwards? Did you feel a sense of pride? Achievement? Euphoria?

The 'trance' state you mentioned is what people who submit themselves to pain often call "zoning out" where you can almost disassociate yourself from your body and observe from outside. This needn't mean the stereotypical "out of body looking down on yourself" but more often simply a mental state where you can be aware of what is happening to your body without losing control.

Fear is a big factor in failing to achieve this state and it is the rational side of you that plays the biggest part in controlling that fear. If you have a good anatomical understanding of your body and the process it is undergoing then it is easier to keep control than say, if you were not aware of what was being done to you or how far it would go or how long it would go on for.

Successfuly achieving that state can be very rewarding in itself.

TelBoy

Bodybuilders go through this threshold all the time. It has to be done if you want to make significant changes to the body. So yes, you can choose to ignore pain when it suits you to do so.


And..?

lightning101

You have granted him the attention he craves

Cenobite

Forgive me if I am speaking out of turn Telboy but that makes two out of two threads in which you have decided to participate, both times in a slightly confrontational manner.

Do you have interests or feelings for or against this subject that you are witholding?Are you suspicious of my motives?

I am trying to gauge the feelings people have about pain as a sensation and whether their minds are open to the suggestion of pain as a positive rather than a negative.

sti-04!!

Spoon

Reality- I did it purely as a test of my pain threshold, nothing more.


I did it for no other reason than I believed it could be done and I had the perfect scenario to try it. I was relaxed and looking forward to succeeding, when I did succeed I felt good.
That's exactly it.

Milamber

iTrader: (2)

Because it's fun.

Spoon

Grumpy fúcker today Tel?

TelBoy

Because you're talking about things that have been thoroughly researched and discussed before, on FAR more suitable forums than a Subaru board.

To bring such detailed intellectual considerations here just makes it obvious you've put little research into this yourself, nor discussed it with people who have a far greater insight than the majority of the people here.

Ok?



As ever, Spoon, as ever...

lightning101

He ***** all the gnomes/dwarfs, not just grumpy :nods: