KiwiGTI

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...29-421,00.html

along with allowing surveillance in Mosques. (similar to France)

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Too damn straight

Really wish we could adopt that attitude over here

AsifScoob

If some people love the Australian way so much, why dont they 'clear off' over there and stop whingeing?

I'd rather not have a redneck leader telling me it was either his way or the highway, thanks.

No fan of TB of course, but clearly having a mind of your own is not acceptable over there. At least in the UK we are free to complain about the Govt without being browbeaten for being 'unpatriotic' or some other nonsense.

"Dr Nelson said today he would meet with the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils to discuss programs that ensure students understand Australia's history, culture and values".

Ooohh, where did them Aboriginies go??

Asif

scoobyvirgin

It should be like that over here.

Asif, it's Not even Pc to be Patriotic anymore!

+ if they can't live by our rules, they should go elsewhere or even where they came from. This Country is not a dumping ground.

scoobyvirgin

Soon to be like where did all the English/Brits go and those who were our forfathers??

KiwiGTI

I've experienced both, the Australian way is much better full stop. There is much more integration in Australian society and it is more tolerant than the UK and the different races and cultures do essentially exist in harmony.

You never really hear about "Australian Asians" , they are referred to and proud to be called Australian.

The aboriginies? Well that's an entirely different topic. They were essentially a conquered race, no different from hundreds (perhaps thousands) of groups of people throughout human history.

There are problems with the aboriginies but there are also a large amount who a prominent and integrated within Australian society and who are proud of that too.

Why shouldn't people be patriotic? It's OK for any other non-European country to be proud of their ancestry and identity.

Alan C

You're missing the point. They're saying if you want Islamic law, dress, music, custom, ethics, morals & way of life then find a country that will give that to you, because Australia doesn't operate that way.

Australians are perfectly free to complain about their democratically elected Government.. What they are saying is that If people want to live in Australia, then they have to abide by it's democratic constitution and laws. Perfectly reasonable to me.

Why go to a country like Australia and then oppose or fight such values and live in an alien and different way? How many times do we see Asian or Eastern European areas in Western capital cities that operate as mini versions of those foreign cities. This isn't a cute version of China Town, this is an enclave where the people within want to keep to their roots (which is fair enough to a degree) but operate to the complete ignorance of the country they are in.. So much so that many of the occupants can't and don't want to accept the values that Country has.. even down to speaking the language..

Putting it bluntly, these people act like parasites, taking the cream that such cities provide them. If the host country is lucky, they may provide some form a tax and offer something back like taking the lowest paid jobs, but ultimately they will gain with education, health and much higher standard of living for them in the short term, and for their offspring in the long term.. which is exactly why they chose that country in the first place..

All the country is asking is; abide by the constitutional values that has made that country what it is, and what has attracted you to it, and integrate to become a full member of that society.. and not use it for your short term and selfish gains..

Not too much to ask is it?

DJ73

well put Alan .

Leslie

Quite right, if you choose to live in another country you have to accept their way of life. You should not expect any special favours and you should not have to experience any trouble from the native population either as long as you behave yourself. You should be able to practice your own culture without interfering with the local's way of life.

Just a matter of fair treatment anf toleration from both sides.

Les

Kyl3cook

Isn't it ironic that we used to dump all our criminals in Australia. I personally think that Oz is the best place to live at them moment. They have it spot on in terms of letting the right people in, and sending the wrong people out.

Suresh

The live-and-let-live approach to integration that Britain and most other European countries have followed is proven to be a massive failure, especially where the immigrants are allowed to cling to their beliefs and values and don't want to integrate.

This is an example of what I mean:




Unemployment rates: by religion and sex, 2003-2004, GB


It is my understanding that this pattern is not repeated in countries where immigration is better controlled and integration is required e.g. U.S.A.

Multiculturalism probably works, but not without a degree of integration and conformity with the national identity as a requirement. What I am saying in a round-about way, is that I think that the Aussies are right in their approach. People should become Aussie first and then everything else second and not the other way around if they want to stay and prosper rather than stay and fail.

As the man says, if you prefer the way that it is elsewhere, then go and live there instead!

Suresh

Shonen

Suresh - why should I move from the country I was born in because we are pandering to minoritys. I have nothing against intergration etc but I do draw the line at my British identity being eroded and flying the National Flag can get me arrested! No other country in the world would let that happen. Every other nation can be proud of their country/heritage etc but in good ol blighty it is frowned upon.

Australia has got the right approach, why cant we do it here? Because Cherie Blair wouldnt earn a fortune without the Human right Bill.

Flatcapdriver

Whaat? Aussies are far less tolerant than Brits regarding immigration which is why the Government can get away with a more aggressive approach than over here. Asians in particular (Orientals to the Brits) are not well tolerated and there has always been a ghetto like mentality with foreigners settling in Oz. Look at the Welsh community in Melbourne or the way Greeks and Italians cluster together in Sydney and Perth. That's hardly integration.

brihoppy

i dont know if anyone else feels like this but i dont really care what non-british people who live in the uk do (within reason, obviously), as long as they contribute fairly...i dont really expect them to fully integrate as i think thats virtually impossible, look at the many ex-pats abroad living in british 'enclaves'...as long as they pay thier taxes and abide by the law, im a happy camper...

KiwiGTI

They are less tolerant for immigration certainly, but I think once in society they are more tolerated.

Most Aussies will give people a fair chance regardless of nationailty. There is laess nastiness there.

And I have seen the Welsh community in Melbourne and both of them are settling in nicely.

Alan C

brihoppy - I don't think anyone will disagree with non-nationals paying their way. Not even the Australians.

The following may exist in single untis to cater for temporary residents or tourists, but what you won't find in a British 'enclave' containing permanent residents is them wishing to build a 'Little Britain'. Apart from 'Eastenders Pub' or the 'Red Lion' in down town Palma acting purely as a tourist attrraction, ex-pats in Saudi or Oman (or wherever) will not be housed in a village containing several thousand Brits catered for by UK shops, UK Pubs, UK Schools, UK Support groups, English language forms and English speaking help in all Government buildings and as an aisde demanding special rights, priviledges, benefits & religious segregation because they are a minority whilst all the time making sure that they are are titled British-Saudi whilst turning up at local International sports events dressed in Union Jack Shorts cheering on England, Scotland etc..

This no doubt touches the surface for what this country provides to help our ex-pat community integrate..

This doesn't help them integrate, it pampers to their wish to remain non-British at heart.

Very simplistic I agree, but it does represent what is happening today, here and now in this country.

Flatcapdriver

I don't know where you lived mate, but there is far more latent racism in Oz than over here.

KiwiGTI

Melbourne (admittedly the most cosmopolitan of Australian cities), and I can't say I noticed any proper racism, or even recall anything in the newspapers about racism.

(And I'm not classifying Greeks fighting Turks or Vietnamese fighting Philipinos over drugs or territory as racism)

brihoppy

i guess youre right to a certain extent...i suppose that ex-pats overseas make far less demands on the countries they now live in and exist on a smaller scale than some of the other nationalities that have settled in the UK, and therefore make less impact on the native population, culture, etc...

however, ive just had a shocking thought...!

i wonder how many apparantly law abiding, innocent foreigners are harbouring, or have knowledge of illegal immigrants from their own countries...?!

Alan C

It depends upon which country you're talking about. Westerners in Aus? I'm sure there are a limited amount who've 'forgotten' that their work visa has expired...

But Iraqi's & Kurds in Aus or the UK? You have to look at the difference in the quality of life. There's very little real difference in the life I enjoy here and the life I'd enjoy in Aus (otherwise this place would be empty). This drives me less to take major risks in such a move.

To the Iraqi, this difference could be a quantum leap and will be worth all the risk taking... There's also the cultural difference. An illegal immigrant living amongst their local fellow legal & illegal 'brothers' & 'sisters' will certainly be kept quiet as they have nothing to loose and they would want these new entrants to also enjoy the fruits that these Western Countries can provide....

KiwiGTI

Or in many cases expolit them and their illegal status.

Drnaz_2000

spain

Markus

Don't live in the UK and expect us to bend to the rules of your religion or beliefs, which it seems are one in the same to some.

If any bending is to be done then it should be they who bend to our rules. You're in our country, you accept our rules. you don't like it, **** off!

You want to preach hatred and incite violcence towards the country you live in, **** off.

In other words, you don't like the way the UK is, then **** off somewhere else and take like minded scum with you when you leave.

mart360

eh

are you for real,,,

its the stupid system we have now, that spins anyone to death dare you question the system.

question the immigration policy,s = little englander
racial concerns (both ways)= racist
i could go on...

hang on though.. dont they have a constitution as opposed to a democratic system?? haha makes sense why el tone want the ue version, so it makes it harder for us to evict the undesireables...

tell you what as if

why dont you bog off to oz and give us some feedback,,, either way we,d be better off... heheh

what they are proposing is perfectly acceptable...

if you choose to come here, you accept our culture, our values, and our laws and systems, there obviously better than what what they are leaving behind..

if they arnt then why come?? stay where you / they are.

if you cant accept what we offer then dont come simple!!!

and if you are indigenous and dont like it... leave!!



M

AsifScoob

Where's your evidence for that please?

Where I live in W London, there are George crosses all over the place, on peoples cars, houses, etc. One house even has a massive St George cross painted over the WHOLE of the front of it, no ones stopping them.

I quite happily wear my Union Jack cufflinks and loads of people like them and comment positively on them.

Most pubs round here have Union Jacks, or Irish Tricolores, no ones bothered.

What are people complaining about - I really dont get it???

Asif

AsifScoob

Hey, call me fussy but genocide of the Aboriginies is not something I would be proud about.

Asif

KiwiGTI

I guess I can't really comment being a New Zealander, I wasn't responsible for that.

As a British person wearing your Union Jack cufflinks you'd be more qualified to comment on the atrocities of the British. Tell me, what sort of aboriginal rehabilitation schemes are you involved in, given that you obviously care so deeply about them and their plight.

AsifScoob

Of course I get the point Alan. I however, like others, choose to comment on the bits of the article that stuck out to me.

My comments were a little dig at the article, thats all.

The first few sentences really screw the article for me, hardly an objective beginning. Then its just a mouthpiece for the redneck sounding politician.

Do they really teach the kids about how the Aboriginies were treated when they talk about Australian history? Just curious.

If you were a student here, or anyone for that matter, would you accept Charles Clarke telling you to agree with his view of things or clear off to somewhere else?

Something about the politician telling me how to live my life which is already well within the confines of the Law, which I find objectionable.

If someone breaks the law, throw the book at them. If someone says they dont drink alcohol and would prefer to have halal meat and not shrimps on their barbie, should they be thrown out of Australia?? Where do you draw the line?

On your other point, you call people parasites, but would you be prepared to do what they do for a living, for their wages? Also, please point out to me a White, indigenous, person who works for purely altruistic purposes and gives all of their money to charity? We all work for a living mate and are basically selfish in all of our aims, so I think you are being a little harsh there.

Just my opinion of course.

Asif

AsifScoob

I didn't say you were Australian therefore somehow personally responsible for it did I? Believe it or not, even I can figure out that you have NZ roots! Your comments did seem a little glib about the situation thats all.

The context I was writing about was what the guy in the article referred to about 'Australian history' and presumably how great it was.

Wearing UJ cufflinks does not make anything that I am not. If you want me to comment on the crimes of British people, or anyone for that matter, I will do so based upon what I know, certainly not from being 'The Accused'.

HTH.

Asif

AsifScoob

Sorry Suresh, I disagree completely. Has its faults but what doesn't?

As you live in Holland and you feel the need to integrate more why not change your name to something more Dutch, like Dennis Bergkamp?

Asif