LINX

Just got 3 points and a £60 fine !! for 35 in a 30. Think it was a scamera van sitting about 50ft before the zone changes from 30 mph to 60 mph. The area isn't even built up ffs.

This has really put a sour taste in my mouth with regards to the police. i've always regarded myself as a pretty safe, considerate & careful driver and always had a fair amount of respect for the police and because of one brief lapse in concentration this happens..... the police are really damaging their image with these type 'traffic policing' tactics.

Are you now supposed to drive around with your eyes glued to the speedo or what ?

After 17 years of careful driving this has really made me sick, don't know whether to contest it or not, probaly be a waste of time and i'd get an even bigger fine for my trouble i expect.

stevem2k

nothing to do with the police. Everything to do with "safety partnerships"

LINX

Of which the police appear to be the main partner though ? hence the fine has Police stamped all over it.

Seems to me that these "partnerships" are nothing but a tactic to take the negative publicity these methods are generating from impacting on the reputation of the police.............i frankly think it's total bollocks and everyone can see straight through it.

Do all the traffic police now just sit at home with their feet up ? or have they now moved on to targeting old grannies for walking to slow or something equally easy. Rant over.....

powerman1

Know how you feel Linxs,I have been driving for 28years on a clean licence and was caught for 36 in a 30 on the widest clearest stretch part of Leeds Rd in Bradford by the very same tactics.it will certainly make you think differently about The road casualty partnership ..but a few things that might make the pill easier to swallow.
1) think about all the times when you have been well over the speed limit and not been caught
2) Every opportunity you get and providing its safe break the limit..you paid for it
3)you can now laugh out loud with the rest of us when you hear the words Road safety partnership.
Dont worry about the insurance going up,it wont for the first offence..but lets face who hasn't got a sp30 even police officer get them..honest
powerman

GC8

Im not sure that this is true Steve; Ive lost count of the number of Traffic Police officers that Ive seen/heard telling people that speed is a factor in most accidents, when they know damned well that it isnt. Traffic officers may not be happy with the shift away from hands-on policing but they seem happy to perpetuate the lies/myths used to support the policies.

Simon

pacenote

If you want to contest it read this thread http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=320024

friend of mine followed steps posted by Chris L and escaped a fine, also get over to www.pepipoo.com for advice re: pace statement.

HTH

Dick Cheese

Just tell them you want to become a policeman in London, but you'll only consider it if they remove the points:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4135334.stm

farmer1

Should read, first time I have been caught after 17 years of speeding

I would be well impressed, with going that long without getting caught.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Invest in a road angel and it would have picked it up up to a 1000 metres away.
Cheers
Colin

hedgehog

You are nearer the truth than you might realise as many counties have virtually disbanded their traffic police. In some cases the only traditional traffic policing they do is escorting wide loads.

Those that remain have been down-skilled (if there is such a term) and the police training at Hendon has gone from the peak of driving training to being almost a joke. In the past the top grade of police driver had at least a 75% chance of failing the 12 (think it was 12, but might be wrong) week course. Now there is a 95% chance of passing a shorter and less tricky course. So, even the traffic police who are out there are considerably less well trained and less skilled than they were only a few years ago.

It is likely that this has a knock on effect as the skills demonstrated by the top drivers were also passed down to others and so the UK had extremely safe roads.

Now we get some yoof doing his community service by sitting in the back of a scamera van pulling in the cash for the "safety partnership."

So, it is easy to understand your blaming the police and there is no doubt that their management are in on this and are destroying skills and experience built up over years. However, I'd bet that a lot of real police drivers are not pleased to see standards falling and to find that they are replaced by a van with a camera in it and a bunch of low skill officers who are only in it for the overtime.

TelBoy

And that would STILL have been too late to avoid being lasered if they'd wanted to get you. You *do* know that, right??

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Cheers Tel!!!!

LINX

Thanks for this Pacenote, reckon i'm gonna try and contest it just out of principle and hopefully it will give them a headache. Will post my results in due course....prob end up with £600 fine and 6 points

TelBoy

Laser diffusers are, apparently, what you need.

Leslie

I agree it does seem totally unfair, in the days before speedcams a traffic cop would not have bothered or at the worst just warned you. In these days of "fleece the motorists for cash", or anybody for that matter we have to be extra careful in the speed limits because there is nothing we can do in such a case.

Les

davegtt

not unfair though is it? you were speeding, you were caught... Surely that means you was guilty of speeding and face the concequences? Id grumble under my breath if I was caught too but end of the day Id know I was in the wrong and cough up.

Why stall it and make more paper work for the police? when they could be catching real criminals, thats what you all moan about yet your quite happy for more paperwork to be raised by contesting something when in fact you know your in the wrong!!!! open space or built up area. speeding is speeding...

before you all jump on my back Im not in no way saying Ive never sped, in fact I have 6 points and had 3 that have been taken off before....

OllyK

Speeding is a whole big can of worms. Speed limits, should be speed guidelines IMO as you cannot determine a safe speed for a road that covers all users in all conditions. A speed limit ends up catering towards the lowest common denominator and this was recognised by traffic police who were unlikely to stop you for a minor infringement and would most likely give you a telling off and send you on your way for a higher infringement that was not inherently dangerous. This common sense has been removed and the road safety focus is almost entirey based on speed. This is a narrow minded and ineffective approach that is not making the roads safer and is turning many drivers in to speedo watching automotons rather than encouraging people to excel at driving.

So following that rant, yes, if you speed, you are breaking the law, but pressure needs to be applied to stop the focus being on cash collecting and returning it to driver training, awareness and safety. Tying the cash generators up in paperwork that makes it all economically unviable for them to continue, is one such mechanism we have available to us.

TelBoy

Agree with Olly there - it's the black and white attitude now prevailing which gets people's backs up. This scamera van didn't HAVE to be parked just before an increase in the speed limit, but it WAS, and anyone with a brain understands why. It's just way too cynical now.

deank93

****!

Leslie

You are quite right of course Olly, this country used to be run on a common sense approach rather than this "black and white" attitude that Telboy mentioned. That is just one reason why speedcams are so unpopular, it does not fit in with the old British set of values.

As I said in my earlier post, the only defence is to be very careful in the speed limits these days. And the next election!

Les

davegtt

Yes I do have 1 thanks, luckily mine isnt on my head like yours

TelBoy

But Dave, do you agree with the susequent responses to your post?

hedgehog

But he may not be stalling it to make more paperwork for the police because there are several good defences to the speeding claims that may work well under the correct circumstances. Having a defence against a claim that you broke the law is not stalling or making paperwork, it is excercising your right to assert your innocence. LINX didn't say he was speeding, from what he says it appears he may have been sent an NIP.

Of course if he completed the NIP and has accepted the FPN offer than that is a different matter and there is little chance of him getting his case overturned, at least little chance within the economic reach of mere mortals.

The other "fact" that the partnerships like to spread around is that if you go to court you will get hammered. In truth if you go to court with a reasonable defence and a good attitude and the magistrate decides to find you guilty then the penalty is likely to be very similar to £60 and 3 points but there will also be costs in the region of £35.

As for the consideration that defending your case might keep the police away from important donut eating duties, well this would be unfounded unless you called a police officer as a witness. The camera partnerships are operated by civilians and prosecutions are taken to court by the CPS, the police just gather evidence and so it is highly likely that their part in the process is complete by the time you get the NIP.

davegtt

Tel, I tried to post straight after my other reply but lost my net connection...

Yes I do agree with what Olly has to say, I agree it should be a guideline, BUT its not is it. its a LIMIT.... you break it then you cant complain when your caught... I honestly believe theres no need to complain and try to get out of it when its been proved youve been caught speeding.

Not saying I dont speed, not trying to sound like a saint but its the truth. if your speeding and you get caught what is the possible arguement for it? Maybe overtaking for a breif period, before settling back to the limit is fine etc but there isnt many excuses and that off Ive been driving 17years so that should prove Im a safe driver so I shouldnt get points is not a valid excuses....

IMO anyhow

LINX

Davegtt,

I'm not saying that because i've been driving 17 years in pretty responsible manner i should be let off, although is takes more than just luck and slowing down when you see a camera to have been driving that long and not have had a least an SP30 imho (i dont have a radar detecter etc). Hopefully if i went to court my clean record might well be taken into consideration.

My reason for disputing this fine is that i feel if it had been a traffic cop in his patrol car who had recorded my speed he would of taken into consideration various observations that were relevant at the time of my alleged offence and imho would probaly not have fined me - particularly as imho i was presenting no danger to any other road users / pedestrians and also approaching a 60 limit.

I will return the NIP but when the FPN is subsequently sent to me i will want to see all the available evidence i.e photographic, camera's calibration certificate and the officers statement before i even consider paying the FPN.

Being only 5mph over the limit leaves hardly no margin for error for perhaps a slight inaccuracy in my cars speedo and also the police camera's calibration surely ?
I would imagine if you asked ten motorists in ten different cars to drive at exactly 30mph and took a reading of thier speeds there would be a fairly large variance in the actual speeds ?

To summarise, paying this fine without seeing all the relevent evidence to back it up is crazy and this is what they rely on - that you just pay up and be a good little citizen and they get a nice big pay rise off the proceeds..........

hedgehog

Please be aware that the court can not decide that your are innocent just because you haven't done something bad previously. There is no room for principal in a court of law, the only thing that matters is the law. So, the magistrate can not "let you off" if you say you were guilty to speeding but that it was a first offence, this can only act as a plea in mitigation. If you plead not guilty then you must establish your innocence as the "innocent until proven guilty" situation has pretty much gone by the wayside when it comes to motoring offences.

However, you are doing the right thing by asking for all the evidence against you and by at least forcing them to make an attempt to prove you guilty rather than you having to prove your innocence. There is no question that many motorists mount a defence based upon the evidence and win as there are a very many cases of incorrect readings from cameras and the like. Your other option, if you haven't returned the NIP, is to review the possibility of the PACE defence as detailed on the pepipoo web site. This can offer a good defence but you should take great care that at no point do you ever admit to speeding on a web site, as was revealed recently to the public the partnerships now monitor motoring web sites looking for evidence of crimes.

Angry

[QUOTE=LINX]Being only 5mph over the limit leaves hardly no margin for error for perhaps a slight inaccuracy in my cars speedo and also the police camera's calibration surely ?
I would imagine if you asked ten motorists in ten different cars to drive at exactly 30mph and took a reading of thier speeds there would be a fairly large variance in the actual speeds ?[/QUOTE]

Most speedos under read though, they have those signs round my way that show you your speed, at 35 indicated I was doing 29 according to the sign...

OllyK

If the speedos are legal, nobody would be exceeding 30mph. IIRC your speedo must read between between +0 and +10mph (may be %), i.e. it may not underread. Most manufacturers seems to set at about 5mph overread to cater for tyre wear and such.

TelBoy

LOL, so your speedo was over-reading then!!

lucylastic

Yep, I think it's +10% rather than MPH. Certainly fits with what my Roadangel tells me, at 70mph on the speedo, the Roadangel registers ~66mph.

And a word of warning - I had no speeding points in 15 years, up until last year, and then managed to accumulate 9 in 8 months (hence the purchase of a Roadangel, oh, and laser eye surgery )