Honor Killings - what's your take?
26 July 2005, 05:08 PM
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Honor Killings - what's your take?
Taken from: FrontPage.com
"Radical Islam is feeling threatened by the growth of freedom and liberty all around the world and it now feels that it is being encircled by it, especially with the reality of the internet, etc. Therefore, to retain its vicious and sadistic power structure, it ferociously inflicts violence, not only on the symbols of freedom outside of it, but also on the symbol of freedom inside of it (i.e. the notion of women’s equality and all the threat that it poses to tyrannical structures.)
One of the best methods by which radical Islam can contain its despotic hold on its own culture, therefore, is to enslave the female gender and to simultaneously try to make its powerless males feel powerful by allowing them vicious tyranny over women. And, therefore, we have honor killings"
"Radical Islam is feeling threatened by the growth of freedom and liberty all around the world and it now feels that it is being encircled by it, especially with the reality of the internet, etc. Therefore, to retain its vicious and sadistic power structure, it ferociously inflicts violence, not only on the symbols of freedom outside of it, but also on the symbol of freedom inside of it (i.e. the notion of women’s equality and all the threat that it poses to tyrannical structures.)
One of the best methods by which radical Islam can contain its despotic hold on its own culture, therefore, is to enslave the female gender and to simultaneously try to make its powerless males feel powerful by allowing them vicious tyranny over women. And, therefore, we have honor killings"
Last edited by JTaylor; 26 July 2005 at 06:19 PM.
26 July 2005, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
LOL looks like a copy and paste job to me 
The public perception is that ‘honour’ killings occur only in Muslim families. This is not true as many Hindu, Sikh, Chinese and Arab families also face the same problem. The ‘dishonour’ inflicted on the family is a characteristic of social tradition – it is not a breach of religious belief. Neither Islam nor Hinduism advocate or condone ‘honour’ killings. Religion, social tradition and cultural diversity are often used by the guilty to justify their action
http://www.bashirkhanbhai.co.uk/publ...honour1003.htm
http://www.bashirkhanbhai.co.uk/publ...honour1003.htm
26 July 2005, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
Radical Islam is feeling threatened by the growth of freedom and liberty all around the world and it now feels that it is being encircled by it, especially with the reality of the internet, etc. Therefore, to retain its vicious and sadistic power structure, it ferociously inflicts violence, not only on the symbols of freedom outside of it, but also on the symbol of freedom inside of it (i.e. the notion of women’s equality and all the threat that it poses to tyrannical structures.)
One of the best methods by which radical Islam can contain its despotic hold on its own culture, therefore, is to enslave the female gender and to simultaneously try to make its powerless males feel powerful by allowing them vicious tyranny over women. And, therefore, we have honor killings.
One of the best methods by which radical Islam can contain its despotic hold on its own culture, therefore, is to enslave the female gender and to simultaneously try to make its powerless males feel powerful by allowing them vicious tyranny over women. And, therefore, we have honor killings.
JT
26 July 2005, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
Forgive me. It is a copy and paste job from an article which I read a few moments a go. Simply interested to know peoples thoughts.
JT
JT
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26 July 2005, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Me too, hence the question. Rather polar and innacurate IMO, this issue is wider than Islam.
Last edited by JTaylor; 26 July 2005 at 06:23 PM.
26 July 2005, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by zakk
What a load of old cack, if it was religion reltaed it would be called religious killings you dork!!
26 July 2005, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 16vmarc
Why, did you like it?
26 July 2005, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
FFS just trying to generate a conversation which considers other issues beyond "they bombed us send 'em home". Thought it would be interesting to get some intelligent responses to a contentious issue such as womens rights within Islam. Not seen it discussed on these boards.....although it's entrirely relevant to the whole debate. Nevermind
26 July 2005, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
I think it may be valid to discuss "honour killings" or the opression of women in the wider context of asia as a whole. It would seem to be more cultural than religious and to lay the blame squarely at the feet of Islam at this time is rather unhelpful IMO.
26 July 2005, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
I think it may be valid to discuss "honour killings" or the opression of women in the wider context of asia as a whole. It would seem to be more cultural than religious and to lay the blame squarely at the feet of Islam at this time is rather unhelpful IMO.
26 July 2005, 06:58 PM
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Honour Killings - what's your take
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
And what exactly did you want to elicit in a conversation about honor killings? I would be horrified if anyone on here supported them.
Last edited by JTaylor; 26 July 2005 at 08:56 PM.
26 July 2005, 07:08 PM
#22
Originally Posted by JTaylor
Why? My point being, that despite the xenophobia, the nationalist sabre rattling and the short sightedness, nobody has discussed, with any credibility or accuracy, many of the fundamental differences between our cultures. One of those differences is that women are viewed differently within the Islamic faith, then they are by the west. Despite equal opportunities being one of the central tenets of "our way of life", I have not read any objections on this forum, pertaining to radical Islam's treatment of women.
26 July 2005, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Yes, but it isn't just Islam, there are a lot of other factors involved. Go to Indonesia or Malaysia for example and the women there are not treated badly.
"Terrorism" does not lay squarely at the feet of Islam, it is a cross-cultural phonomenon. This has not however stopped the topic being dicussed solely in relation to Islam.
26 July 2005, 07:21 PM
#24
Yes, but often terrorism is done in the name of Islam specifically, whether it's hatred of the west, the desire for a global Islamic state or revenge for foreign policy.
Honor killins are not, they are actually a pre-Islamic, tribal custom stemming from the patriarchal and patrilineal society's interest in keeping strict control over familial power structures.
Honor killins are not, they are actually a pre-Islamic, tribal custom stemming from the patriarchal and patrilineal society's interest in keeping strict control over familial power structures.
26 July 2005, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Yes, but often terrorism is done in the name of Islam specifically, whether it's hatred of the west, the desire for a global Islamic state or revenge for foreign policy.
Honor killins are not, they are actually a pre-Islamic, tribal custom stemming from the patriarchal and patrilineal society's interest in keeping strict control over familial power structures.
Honor killins are not, they are actually a pre-Islamic, tribal custom stemming from the patriarchal and patrilineal society's interest in keeping strict control over familial power structures.
26 July 2005, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Yes, but often terrorism is done in the name of Islam specifically, whether it's hatred of the west, the desire for a global Islamic state or revenge for foreign policy.
Honor killins are not, they are actually a pre-Islamic, tribal custom stemming from the patriarchal and patrilineal society's interest in keeping strict control over familial power structures.
Honor killins are not, they are actually a pre-Islamic, tribal custom stemming from the patriarchal and patrilineal society's interest in keeping strict control over familial power structures.
What he said!
I was going to type something long winded, but I dont need to know - thanks!
I will say though, yes it does happen, yes it does happen within Islamic countries, no however, it has nothing to do with Islam itself. Islam actually grants tremendous rights to women, noteworthy, due to those rights being granted a very long time ago. Further noteworthy however, is that very few of those rights are freely exercised, and/or widely throughout the Islamic World, IMO.
This is due, also IMO, to the fact that not enough Muslims who have read the Koran, understand it, (like me for instance) This is due to the requirement that it be read in its original Arabic form, and I do not understand Arabic. Plus side of this is that the Koran has remained unchanged and unedited throughout all of the ages.
Downside is that most Muslims IMO, seek knowledge of what they should/should not be doing from their Imams, parents etc. This can be ok, but IMO is open to cultural bias. In my case, the Punjabi culture in our house (Punjab being the region of the sub-continent where my folks come from) was a far stronger influence than religion.
One of the traits of this (in my house) was the subjugation of women. On the flip side my Mum and Sisters seemed fairly ok with this, as that was how they were brought up.
Plus side, was that Dad (being very chauvinistic) was ok about whatever the lads got up to, going out all night, girls, drinking, etc, as long as it wasn't in his face. Down side, this did not apply to the girls, who were strictly controlled. I could go on.
In summary then, completely un-Islamic, but practised none the less, as Islam is sometimes not the greatest influence in peoples' lives.
Re-reading this I have to take back the long reply comment, could have been MUCH longer though.
Asif
PS All due respect to the original poster but can we chill out on the Islamic threads for a bit, I'm getting sick of them, but feel compelled to reply to these. I'd rather talk about the weather tbh!
26 July 2005, 07:42 PM
#28
Originally Posted by JTaylor
Impressive. So, by this rationale, and in direct reponse to the statement above, terrorism is Islamic (unacceptable) and the oppression of women by Muslim's is simply cultural and therefor acceptable.
Why the need for Islam to be brought into this? Oppression of women happens world wide irrespective of women, shouldn't that be what we discuss or are you saying that anyone can oppress women, but we should single out Muslims?
26 July 2005, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AsifScoob
What he said!
I was going to type something long winded, but I dont need to know - thanks!
I will say though, yes it does happen, yes it does happen within Islamic countries, no however, it has nothing to do with Islam itself. Islam actually grants tremendous rights to women, noteworthy, due to those rights being granted a very long time ago. Further noteworthy however, is that very few of those rights are freely exercised, and/or widely throughout the Islamic World, IMO.
This is due, also IMO, to the fact that not enough Muslims who have read the Koran, understand it, (like me for instance) This is due to the requirement that it be read in its original Arabic form, and I do not understand Arabic. Plus side of this is that the Koran has remained unchanged and unedited throughout all of the ages.
Downside is that most Muslims IMO, seek knowledge of what they should/should not be doing from their Imams, parents etc. This can be ok, but IMO is open to cultural bias. In my case, the Punjabi culture in our house (Punjab being the region of the sub-continent where my folks come from) was a far stronger influence than religion.
One of the traits of this (in my house) was the subjugation of women. On the flip side my Mum and Sisters seemed fairly ok with this, as that was how they were brought up.
Plus side, was that Dad (being very chauvinistic) was ok about whatever the lads got up to, going out all night, girls, drinking, etc, as long as it wasn't in his face. Down side, this did not apply to the girls, who were strictly controlled. I could go on.
In summary then, completely un-Islamic, but practised none the less, as Islam is sometimes not the greatest influence in peoples' lives.
Re-reading this I have to take back the long reply comment, could have been MUCH longer though.
Asif
PS All due respect to the original poster but can we chill out on the Islamic threads for a bit, I'm getting sick of them, but feel compelled to reply to these. I'd rather talk about the weather tbh!
I was going to type something long winded, but I dont need to know - thanks!
I will say though, yes it does happen, yes it does happen within Islamic countries, no however, it has nothing to do with Islam itself. Islam actually grants tremendous rights to women, noteworthy, due to those rights being granted a very long time ago. Further noteworthy however, is that very few of those rights are freely exercised, and/or widely throughout the Islamic World, IMO.
This is due, also IMO, to the fact that not enough Muslims who have read the Koran, understand it, (like me for instance) This is due to the requirement that it be read in its original Arabic form, and I do not understand Arabic. Plus side of this is that the Koran has remained unchanged and unedited throughout all of the ages.
Downside is that most Muslims IMO, seek knowledge of what they should/should not be doing from their Imams, parents etc. This can be ok, but IMO is open to cultural bias. In my case, the Punjabi culture in our house (Punjab being the region of the sub-continent where my folks come from) was a far stronger influence than religion.
One of the traits of this (in my house) was the subjugation of women. On the flip side my Mum and Sisters seemed fairly ok with this, as that was how they were brought up.
Plus side, was that Dad (being very chauvinistic) was ok about whatever the lads got up to, going out all night, girls, drinking, etc, as long as it wasn't in his face. Down side, this did not apply to the girls, who were strictly controlled. I could go on.
In summary then, completely un-Islamic, but practised none the less, as Islam is sometimes not the greatest influence in peoples' lives.
Re-reading this I have to take back the long reply comment, could have been MUCH longer though.
Asif
PS All due respect to the original poster but can we chill out on the Islamic threads for a bit, I'm getting sick of them, but feel compelled to reply to these. I'd rather talk about the weather tbh!
How's the weather where you are?
Last edited by JTaylor; 26 July 2005 at 08:32 PM.
26 July 2005, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
This is the kind of response (from an obvious moderate) which educates people (like me) and helps breed tolerance and understanding. Your candour and honesty is to be applauded. Apologies for the thread title, it was designed specifically to generate a reponse, although in hindsight it was insensitive.
How's the weather where you are?
How's the weather where you are?
Thanks for that.
Feels a bit muggy here in W London. I think its going to rain. I am very pleased about that though as I have been very concerned over my lawn recently and haven't been able to cut the grass because some of it got a bit singed in the Sun!
Still some rain and careful watering is helping to heal the lawn and I can continue working on my stripes again very soon I hope.
Whereabouts are you? And is the weather any different?
Asif
Last edited by AsifScoob; 26 July 2005 at 11:12 PM. Reason: Poor English!