Lou x

hi all

I was considering doing this with another name to keep anonymous, but have now decided that it wont hurt for it to be known as im going to be selective with the information that I reveal.

Im not going to mention for whom I work for, but I will say its a place that has a lot of customers, no doubt many of you that will look at this will be customers or potential customers.

anyway.

I have just been through a messy discaplinary process, where I was given a final written warning, for what as far as I am concerned was loyality to the company.

Basically I saw comments being made on a website forum (not this one) about the company for which I work, and I acted instinctivley (sp?) and defended the company using factual information.

it was picked up in an e-mail from a customer that I had made these comments, they were easily traceable to me as I told them who I was and where I worked, as I felt I was doing the right thing!

it went through the process and I appealed, the appeal hearing upheld the decision because I showed no remorse for what I had done, why should I? I was defending the company for which I worked, I was doing something they want us to do? or do they?

anyway down to the nitty gritty, I had a rep from my trade union with me, he has told me catagorically if I was to take it futher they would not allow it to get as far as a tribunal (sp?) as they have a 100% policy on this (I think a lot of customer facing companies have this in place) where they would always offer a cash amount for your silence.

as im sure you can appeciate theres a lot more to this that what I have just said, included within the information to upheld my final written warning were internal e-mails from managers defending what I had done and actually making remarks about our customers in a detremental way! (poilte way of putting it!!!)

what can I expect to get out of this? is it worth it? to be honest im considering leaving anyway after the treatment I have recieved! so if I can get some cash out of them as well why not? I know that if it went to tribunal then all information relating to this case would become public propperty, and beleive me I would have no qualms about sending the sun these e-mails! but in reality, because of whom the company is the times and all the big hitters would probably be more interested!

your thoughts, sorry if this doent make much sense im still upset about it all and dont know who else to turn to?

thanks

lou x

prodriva

Say to your emplyer that you want the case to go before a tribunal and give them a deadline for them to give you an answer. That way your in control and know on a specific day when your answer will come. *******...

davegtt

to be fair, most big companies have a policy of employees not revealing anything about their customers and talking about their products/services to anyone outside of that company, if thats what you have done (not saying you have but it sounds that way from your post) then they have the right to take whatever action they see nessesary

carl

You have to consider what you would get out of a tribunal. Probably either:
a) Get to retain your job (who'd want it after a tribunal -- atmosphere would be crap)
b) Cash payment for your notice period.

So potentially a lot of pain for, at best, a couple of thousand quid.

brihoppy

i would say a little advice from a solicitor specialising in employment law perhaps...?

Rioja

On what grounds were you given the final written warning; possibly libellous statements, unauthorised internet usage, unauthorised contact with the media, or something else.

Is it a final written warning for the single incident, or a final written warning that if you so much as fart, you’ll be dismissed. If it’s the former, and you like working for the company, never do it again and continue working there. A period of time will pass and continued good conduct will see you in the clear in 6 months.

If it’s the latter, then you have to pursue it to its conclusion; and probably look for another job.

Jerome

If you go through a potentially public tribunal, you may find future employers are reluctant to hire you, however justified your grievance. They will see you as trouble. It doesn't sound like you want to keep your job, so only go the tribunal route if you stand to make a great deal of money.

I assume you've kept copies of all the emails and correspondance away from work.

Lou x

ok im going to try and answer a few of you, in order.

davegtt, I didnt discuss any customers details with anyone, nor did I discuss anything account specific, what I did was give links to the companys website and pointed out specific points for the people making negative comments to look at. over 60000 people had viewed the thread by this time seeing all the negative stuff!

carl, I would be leaving my job under the guise of constructive dismissal, ie: I would be handing my notice in and then taking them to tribunal for unfair dismissal. I will only do that once I have found another job anyway.

brihoppy, thats my next move anyway I think, presuming I decide to go ahead with it.

rioja, innapropriate conversation with a customer on an external website. its a final written warning that will remain on my details for the next 12 months and if I so much as fart at work and they dislike the odour then im gone!

jerome, I can appreciate that also, but would hope that employers would also note that I was defending the honour of the company, and ensuring future hapiness of their customers. and yes believe me I have everything and duplicate copys, and they know that full well.

*what I did was really not a big thing, if it was a big thing I would have put my hands up and taken it, the union guy, (in his words on a personal basis) said what a complete farce, as far as he was concerned I showed that I was acting in the best interest of the company, and that managers agreed with me on the stance that I took, he felt he was just defending the person that made the original call so as not to put there name in jepordy. he said if it went to tribunal it would be a straight cut call in my favour, he feels that it would be a MASSIVE blow for the company should this ever come to press!

Brendan Hughes

You don't work for the FA by chance?

carl

So what do you hope to gain from the tribunal? Obviously you don't want your job back (as you'd have a new one) so I reckon the best you could do is to get paid your notice period. If this is a month (pretty likely) then you're causing yourself a whole heap of stress and pain for very little money.

I don't understand the "Final Written Warning" anyway. Does this suggest you'd had previous written warnings?

jods

Ahhh. The thing is, companys - especially big, well known companies, employ lots of very expensive legal experts and even more expensive consultants who dot the I's and cross the T's of every single comment that could be attributed to the company (Tescos for example)

As you identified yourself as an employee of XYZ Ltd and posted comments on a public forum you have bypassed all the legal, moral, corporate guidelines for the organisational presence out in the real world.

Not a smart move as it is guaranteed to Pi55 those guys off big style and probably up to quite a senior level. You gave them no choice but to give you a good bollocking and IMHO you were lucky not to get the sack (I reckon that it may be that one or two bods that got involved with your disciplinary were privately chuffed that you felt so strongly about the company that you acted in the way that you did) BUT They aren't gonna give you a slap on the back for it - Are they ??? Otherwise what's the point of spending millions on legal teams etc !!!

Keep your pecker up - Keep working hard and you could find that in 6 - 12 months time you'll actually get a bit of Kudos from it.

Or slink away never to be heard of again...

The story will continue no doubt

Lou x

I have been there for 8 years and no previous warnings of any kind.

lou

vindaloo

It does sound like a case of beaurocratic process at the expense of common sense. If both line managers and the union can agree...

I can see where Jods is coming from. Large companies have policies that deal with media relations that normally emphasise authorised channels of communication etc.

In defending the company and revealing yourself as an employee, did you mount any form of attack on other forum users or did you keep it low-key and provide the data?

What did the customer in question have to say?

Good luck whatever course of action you embark upon.

J.

Abdabz

Lou
I've been on here in the past defending an employer and being aware of competition law etc made me really wary of how to pitch it - ie it's always "a friend of mine" as opposed to me.
I really feel for your situation. Its hard when you see someone slagging off an organisation that you put so much effort into to try and make work.
I would also recommend an employment law solicitor should you even consider legal representation/ Its good to have a union onside - but often politics clouds their objectivity (imo).
If it was me I'd be actively seeking employment eveywhere possible about now and I hope it all works out for the best.
P

Apparition

That was going to be my question....why a FINAL WRITTEN warning ??? There surely has to be due process with warnings. First a verbal, then two written followed by the final third, if I'm not mistaken. Don't understand this

Brendan Hughes

I think you can jump straight to the final if the offence is considered very serious, but not sure...

darren...

You can proceed straight to final written if it's serious. If it's very serious then you can go straight for dismissal (classed as gross misconduct).

Making statements about the company you work for, in public, regardless of the intentions behind it (I accept they were 100% good in your case) is something frowned on by most companies and disciplinaries will result.

FYI the rules regarding tribunals have also changed as of October last year. If they've gone straight to final written I don't think that you'll have grounds for constructive dismissal. HTH

Rioja

Agree with Jods, and if you've been there 8 years; pension, holiday, sick pay, etc. I think you'd be daft to quit.
Suck it up, ask to be made fully aware of the company policy on this type af thing, keep your nose clean and 6-12 monthes down the line you'll be free of it. And as Jods put it, you may find management have taken note of your loyalty.

r32

Jods is correct, you should have brought the thread to the notice of those in the Company who are authorised to make statements on its behalf, not jumped in yourself. I think that you are lucky to still have a job. Just think if every Company employee were to make statements..... the legal implications are horrific.
Its good you wanted to defend the Company but its clearly not your responsibility to do such things.
Seems to me you have two choices, carry on and keep your head down, you may have impressed a few with your loyalty or pack up and leave.

Lou x

cheers for your replys guys

In responce, I have obviously given you limited information as I dont want to get my **** bitten again, as im sure you can apprecate.

however let me ensure you that my comments on the website were far from detremental, in fact it was a matter of a simple line of words stating fact, and a link to my companys website t & c.

if it was me standing there and saying your all a bunch of ***** and know **** all, I could understand the sanction they handed out, I agreed I should not have done it, but still stand against the FINAL written warning. its just too harsh.

I am able to leave under the hood of constructive dismisal, this has been confirmed by solicitor yesterday, I have almost certainly decided to go that route, someone mentioned that it would be the equivalent of a monts wage, my solicitor suggests otherwise after reading all the information and seeing the emails from manager to manager.

In his words not mine "they will never allow these e-mails to go public it will ruin their reputation in one swoop, this could cost them millions down the line should they allow it to become public knowledge,` imho they will offer you a large amount to sign a form stating you will not goto tribunal and let these docs become public property.

I am just thinking about it now.

lou x