Luminous

iTrader: (3)

I've recently been put into the position where I have quite a bit of time to spare. I also need to generate some extra cash, and am willing to spend a couple of hours a day trying to do so.

If anyone here is into this stuff, I would really like a few tips on how to start out. I've got the mathematics under my belt, its just the practical application...ie finding the arbs.

Everything I have come across to date is less than 5%, which IMO, is not worth the effort.

imlach

Depends how often you can guarantee 5%?

If you can guarantee 5% return every day, and reinvest the winnings, you'll turn £1,000 into £1,000,000 in 143 days.

Unlikely, but that's the stats. 5% return is what you get ANNUALLY in the bank (if that!). Don't turn your nose up at it so easily.

PS, what's ARB?

Deep Singh

5% is good if you d'ont have to borrow the money and have plenty of cash and d'ont have to pay tax on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from with that rate compared to a bank. Its just the time and effort that is needed to find a 5% arb, combined with the fact that its difficult to put on more than £1k. That means you only make £50, and it can take a few days for the bet to come off.

Can end up working out as only £10 per day, not really that stunning....

Thats why I wanted a few tips. Bookies that can take larger bets (I have a reasonable amount of cash that I can play with).

Arb hunting sites/forums where like minded people post what they find, etc



P.S. Arb stands for arbitrage. Its a form of (almost) risk free betting. You can have a read about it here http://www.arbhunters.co.uk/

imlach

Ah, it's that!
Worth a try, but once you start getting into large sums, you end up in a scenario where a bookie may accept one of the bets, but when you come to place the opposing bet, if they refuse, the system breaks down horribly.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

That would be a problem!!

There are a few ways to get around that. Experience with the bookie and their advertised limits should allow you to place bets that they do not reject. Failing that, you could place a few smaller bets to build up the amount.

Not sure, will have to see how it works. Then just play with my winnings for a while. From what I can gather, this sort of thing, if it works, should be around for a while. Don't want to rush into anything.

matt85

I have been studying arbritage 'trading' for a while now. I dont like using the term 'betting', as it implies risk to me.

If you want to make bigger amounts then you will probably have to go through financial markets where there you can instigate bigger trades.

A 5% arb is a massive arb on sports. You occasionally see one of something like 30% but they only occur when a particular book is out of line and once this situation is rectified you are often left open. Not good. Its also difficult to avoid being spotted as an arber by different bookies so be wary about this as certain bookmakers do not take too kindly to it.

There are a good few sites that spring up offering a decent amount of 2-3% arbs daily, but you must remember by the time you have got to the book in question others too have received the alerts and the margin has gone, so the only real way to make good money would be to find them yourself which is hard work and unbelievably boring. Some sites have a very limited amount of customers but these can be very pricey, although by all accounts some are good and worth the money.

A lot of arbers would seem to suggest that to make a lot of money at it initially its all to with the size of your bank. i.e you cant make a living off £1000 initially but if you could start with, say £20k, you would have a continuous stream of income from £1000 arbs, instead of tieing up your bank for 5 days at a time whilst waiting for a profit.

Its not something to do for quick money but, like everything, there is money to be made if you put time and effort into it.

Incidentally, if you are looking for arbs yourself, ive heard mens tennis and the German Budesliga are as good a place as any to start at.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the insight

I don't understand the exposure on the 30% arbs. I was expecting one of those to come up in a couple of days, and intended to go for it.

If you manage to place the bets when the odds are still there, whats the problem with the book being out of line?

matt85

What happens when that occurs is that the bookie makes a mistake when setting the price i.e if a price should really be 1/2 and they make an error and enter it on at 2/1 for whatever reason, which you take. If they can prove that the book was sufficiently out of line and that a genuine error has been made then they will avoid paying you on that price and pay you on the actual price i.e 1/2, leaving you open to a loss and not an arb. It sounds sneaky but apparently they are well within their rights to do this.

Occasionally you will get a genuine 30% but they are as rare as rocking horse ****, by all accounts.

£1000 at 4% turns into over £50k in 100 trades , so theres no real reason to go after the massive , relatively riskier trades if you take your time and plan ahead.

2000TLondon

I'd like to be, but I don't have the paitence, I gamble regularly and do relatively well, but I prefer the big wins to the small yet guaranteed profits. But I know who will be better off at the end of the year, and it won't be me!

I was going to mention the arb sites, but see some are here. There are companies that offer you software. A friend of mine is in Risk Arb and makes a fortune, literally, for himself and his bank.

There are some other sites like www.oddschecker.co.uk that will quickly show you every price offered by every bookmaker, and can be useful when looking to arb bets on the exchanges.

Good luck, and I'd be interested to know how well you do!

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, there are lots of companies out there that offer all sorts of stuff. Prob is that a lot are scams. Its so hard to work out what is what. The risk does not seem to be in the betting, but finding out who offers the best sort of service!

Going to have a good look around oddschecker. Worries me a little if it is that easy, as if I can see it, then so can everyone else.

Really need some way of doing an automatic comparison.

matt85

http://www.zero-risk-arbitrage.com/

Comes recommended by some , although i havent personally tried it and there are meant to be others that offer an equally good, if not better service.

imlach

The above site suggests that in the last month, a 'bank' of £15000 would have returned 0.96% return in 1 month - £150......which is fine, and defintely more than a bank, but you'd have to balance that with how much time it was taking to make that £150 return. Any more than 30 hours a month, and you'd earn more in Macdonalds!!!

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmm, not that good then, but still worth have a good look through. See what they come up with

2000TLondon

Yeah, obviously with oddschecker you have to be early, quick and lucky, but it tells you where there are descrepencies.

A simple horse racing "lay" is to get up nice and early for the first edition of The Sun and The Racingpost. For example, on a Saturday, if a certain Racingpost tipster who is followed by the general public has a healthy WIN BET recommendation, and you are able to back it early (pre 9am) on betfair, there is a strong chance that once the public get on and the bookies "release" their prices at 10.15am, the price will come in.....

In theory!

There are obviously loads of little simple things like that that can make quite a bit, or just get you a free bet. There are "seminars" on to how make money on betfair, a few of them are well regarded, and may cost a bit, but there are stories of free money from betfair!

Or we could pool together and "buy" a League 2 goalkeeper!

matt85

Haha, a man with a plan!

Although, i have heard that Scottish ones can be *ahem*, bought rather more cheaply

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

I'm smiling at that plan too

wwp8

i'm interested, which service would at of those 3 are better.

btw, has any of you tried it

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Anyone know of a good book, or site that covers betting basics. This is all turning out to be more complex that I at first thought.

I like ot have worked examples of converting odds from UK to EU to US etc.

Also, more importantly I'd like examples of how bookies calculate their coverage. Balance their books etc etc. Just all the little tricks and insights into the trade that basic maths does not give you

matt85

If you hang around the betfair forums long enough you will gain a DECENT insight on all things betting.

Incidentally, *mini-thread-hijack*, does anybody know where i could find a decent job description for risk-analysts at the big 3 bookies? Cant find much on the respective sites really.

Warwick-hunt

the example they show is from 2003

i think its called best book on some of the site but as some one said, when the prices change it can all go against you

2000TLondon

I've not bought this yet, but it sounds quite a good book....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...=2FJ8R858SL962

2000TLondon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...Fencoding=UTF8

this too!

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Thank, they look good. Will have to get one of them

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

Spare time?? No money??

GET A JOB!!!

A sure fire 100% risk free way to easily earn more than £10 a day And you don't even need to put any money up front.

Seriously, you should try it I've got one and I can afford a house, a car, a wife, loads of beer money and take away food, new clothes and even a few fancy electrical goods.

It's just down the road and I don't need to go in until 10 am so not that hard either really.

Worth a thought anyway.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Boost II

Can do arbs as well as a job, depending on job of course.

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

imlach

If any of you are interested, I've just developed a system which has returned me, on average, £1400/week working from around 7pm to 9pm Mon-Fri. It can all be done from home, with a broadband connection. You won't have to talk to anyone with this scheme.

If anyone is interested, I can send you the introduction, with full details of my system available to order online at only £99.50 incl postage. You too could soon be making hundreds per week....

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

And to think I nearly believed you

wwp8

£1400 ?????


is that all




my mate makes £1000 a day
on a couple of hours at night
















never seen him since that bust though