hedgehog

Because of people driving 4 X 4 vehicles! Honestly, nothing to do with lack of policing, cameras making people think speed is the only factor in an accident etc. The only reason people are dying on the roads is because some choose to drive 4 X 4 vehicles. Funny how this research fits in with recent government propaganda as well, that's handy:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...534514,00.html

Performance cars are next folks, watch your backs.

Little and large a lethal combination
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent

THE growing popularity of “Chelsea tractors” is causing road deaths to rise again after decades of decline, a study has found.
People in small cars are 12 times more likely to be killed than those in a 4x4 when the vehicles collide, according to the Transport Research Laboratory (TRL). The study found that the rise in sales of 4x4s and people-carriers was causing more than 20 extra deaths and serious injuries a year among people in small cars.
NI_MPU('middle');Medium-size cars have become less popular in recent years, so many more crashes involve a big vehicle hitting a small one. TRL found that there had been a significant change in the national car fleet since the mid-1990s, with big increases in large cars and super-minis.
People carriers and 4x4s are typically more than double the weight of small cars. The high bumpers on 4x4s tend to override the side-impact protection on small cars and penetrate the body.
The research provides the first evidence in Britain that the popularity of big vehicles is a key factor in rising road deaths. A total of 1,769 drivers and passengers were killed in 2003, the highest number for seven years.
Car manufacturers had previously denied that there was a problem and have rejected evidence from the United States on the ground that the American market is different from Britain’s.
Sales of 4x4s grew by 12.8 per cent last year, to 179,000, more than double the number sold a decade ago. People carriers have grown at an even faster rate, with more than 126,000 sold last year, ten times as many as in 1994. Small cars made up 35 per cent of the market last year, compared with 26 per cent a decade ago.
In the US, relatives of people killed when their small cars were hit by 4x4s are suing manufacturers for selling dangerously incompatible cars.Land Rover has acknowledged that its vehicles may present a greater risk to drivers of small cars and is altering its designs.
Road safety groups said that the alterations would make little difference to the extra risk posed by 4x4s.

Gas-guzzling vehicles should pay an additional £150 in road tax because of the extra damage they do to the environment, the Government’s energy efficiency watchdog said. This week the Energy Saving Trust will recommend a new road tax band for the least-efficient vehicles. Most 4x4s and many luxury saloons and people carriers would be included and would pay £320 a year, compared with the present top rate of £170

NotoriousREV

Of course, the Government haven't considered anything that may help stop collisions in the first place

What's next? "Government bans the ground following evidence that during a plane crash, most fatalities are caused by striking the ground at speed"

Diesel

And all this in a time when even the cheapest car has safety features you could only dream of 7 years ago [cue Scameraships taking the credit for reduced injuries etc]. Actually I think it is movement that causes the problem, and of course movement = speed. We should clearly have 'movement scameras'. This will then tackle the statistics 'issue' and prove beyond doubt that they are right and we truly are mad bad motoring killers

speedking

"20 extra deaths"
"A total of 1,769 drivers and passengers were killed in 2003"
1.1%, not statistically significant is it?

corradoboy

Ooooh! An extra 20 deaths a year. Although every death is serious, in the grand scheme isn't this a gnats tear in the Pacific ? Smoking kills IRO 180,000 people a year and is a major burden on our health service, but is it banned ? P!ss poor driving causes more accidents than any other factor, but it is hard to detect and even harder to prove, so if you need to raise revenue what's the easiest option

speedking

Gas guzzling drivers doing 20mpg rather than 40mpg for 12000 miles a year already pay an additional >£600 in fuel duty. That's fair enough.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Seems to me from that article that the only way forward is for us drivers of smaller cars to be given government grants to buy 4x4's so we can all drive them, as they are safer:

Alcazar

Brendan Hughes

Unfortunately, it's even better than that. "20 extra deaths and serious injuries". ISTR serious injuries are many times more than deaths - so if 1800 deaths, lets say 6000 serious injuries. So that's more like 20 out of 7800. And someone deems this news?

mattstant

I wonder if they would care to investigate how many lives have been saved by big 4x4's in accidents with HGV's and brick walls etc and i wonder if this might be a tad over 20 ????????

mattstant

I have no problem whatsoever with somone buying a big 4X4 on the grounds that it will protect them in the event of a collision
I do however resent some 4x4 drivers attitude that this therefore makes them invulnerable and they can drive there 2 ton vehicles 2 ins from my back bumper .

Spring Heeled Jack

Strangely enough I agree with them on this one. I would welcome any legislation that drives the blight of 4 x 4 vehicles from our roads - the harsher the better.

celticpilgrim

Matt,

That probably goes for people who don't mind folks buying scoobs, 'cos they're nice fun cars, etc., but do object to them being driven like a tw*t 2 inches from their bumper!!!

And Jack....you're beginning to sound like a bigoted old fart

Our Freelander takes up no more room on the road than an MPV such as a Picasso, Scenic or even an Impreza wagon (I used to own one) and less than our Legacy

Let's face it, 4x4 drivers are an easy target....why not pick on MPV's in general? And let's not lose sight of the real issue..the standard of people's driving!!!

Jerome

Maybe someone can point out to the UK government, and all others interested in road safety, that the UK has the safest roads in Europe. So much so that the French government are telling French drivers to drive like the British. See here.

speedking

Jack, Subaru's are 4x4 vehicles as is the Panda 4x4, one of the smallest cars on the road

Spring Heeled Jack

They make themselves an easy target because they invariably come across selfish ostentatious types whose sole apparent aim is to give the impression that they are somehow more important than everybody else. The poor and often dangerous standard of 4X4 drivers generally only reinforces this image.

Couple this to the fact that their impact on the environment is inversely proportionate to the taxes they pay and there is a clear case for restrictions being put in place to massively curb the usage of such inappropriate vehicles in the urban environment.

J

Spring Heeled Jack

I think you know that I'm talking about X5s, Cayanes, Land Cruisers, Vouges, Cherokees, and all the other big wheeled inflated sheds that clog up our roads....

Iain Young

Big 4x4s are no more dangerous than the plethora of white vans being driven around our roads, or mpvs, or box lorries etc, and can be driven perfectly safely.

It's just that with all vehicles you get arrogant **** driving them as though they are invulnerable and own the road. It's not the vehicles that are the problem it's the bad driving. This also ties in with the speed camera debate as it is bad driving that is the problem there as well.

If we had better driver education, a much more visible police presence, and less reliance on automated detection systems, then I suspect the accident rate would drop sharply...

Brendan Hughes

Indeed. And the grants could be funded by income raised from speed cameras! Truly Albion would be a safe island!

shaunywrx

I think what you've failed to notice is the fact that all Subaru's are 4X4's, so were get attacked on both front's (gas guzzling and 4WD). In my opinion what will probably happen is some half wit politician will put a bill through to ban all 4WD's on ground's of safety, i mean it worked with dangerous dog's and hand gun's (to name just a few) because know one get's bitten by dog's or shot (by human's, not dog's) anymore do they? But this bill will obviously fail to go through, so just to placate all the protester's (who will now have jumped on the band wagon, er that will be an enviromentally friendly 2WD solar powered bandwagon obviously), they'll stick an extra £500 a year tax on all 4X4's thus solving all the problem's, and, as if by magic the road death's figure's will drop overnight, which will vindicate the affore mentioned half wit politician's brilliant idea and earn the government countless £100000's of extra income from the criminal motorist's.

Brendan Hughes

No, we just mentioned it in the last two or three threads on this subject.

Freak

only one option left

Kill everyone

Shark Man

Perhaps cars heavier than say, 1.5tons should be re-classed into a different vehicle licence catorgory.

Like vehicles over 6.5tons where you need a HGV licence to drive.
Something similar for heavier cars...and EVERYONE must take a certain test which teaches them the responsibility to other road users, driving attitude and consideration that should made interms of braking and handling. Perhaps this would stop the idiots in these things driving up my **** and driving them beyond their expected limits of handling.

Of course this is all cloud cuckoo land....everyone should do this, not just 4x4 owners. But who wants to increase driving standards in the UK?

As long as there is money to made out of blaming someone or something, that will always take priority over the real issues.

speedking

I'm on the same wavelength as Shark Man here. Have long believed that a 'superlicence' of some sort would encourage drivers to improve skills beyond the basic test. Could carry permission to drive at 85mph on motorways for example, and allow driving of vehicles >150bhp (or whatever other arbitrary limit you set), while giving discounts on insurance. Renewed every 5 years, I believe that this would do a great deal to improve accident statistics.

Iain Young

Nice idea, but how on earth would you police it?

King RA

And then I bet you any money the new range rover would be made from aluminium and weigh 1.49999 tons

Nexuas

Surley we should be banning lorrys and large Vans well before 4X4's?

I am not saying I prefer 4X4's, as in fact I hate the fact they are used as a status symbol rather than an off road vehical as they should be designed for...

I am sure banning HGV's from the roads would have a positive effect on the road death statistics? Maybe the govenment should concentrate on moving more freight by rail and keep the roads free for car travel, it has been done in the past, so why can it not be done again...

Spring Heeled Jack

Yea but lorries and vans serve a purpose, whereas a 4X4 serves *only* to gratify the ego of the owner at the expense of all other road users.

Iain Young

In some cases. Other people do have a genuine reason for owning them.

For example, if you banned them, you'd also have to ban people towing horse boxes, caravans, trailers etc. A 4x4 is a lot safer at doing this than a small car.

They tend to have a lot more interior space than a car, and so if you are carrying large amounts of stuff around, they are very useful.

Also, ironically, a lot of 4x4s are actually more environmentally friendly than normal saloon cars...

And the list goes on. Just because some people use them as a status symbol, it doesn't mean that everyone does

Iain Young

Out of interest, what car do you drive?

speedking

Nice idea, but how on earth would you police it?

How do you police the current licence system for HGVs, buses, and motorcycles? It's just another category.

Police see you doing 85mph, do a vehicle check, and it returns 'superlicence' holder. No problem. Or have a disc like a tax disc displayed in the rear window. etc.