Nick

Government Pedestrian Casualty Figures Overturn Public Perceptions on Speed and Bus Safety

Buses "Thirteen Times More Likely" to Knock Someone Down than "White Van Man"

Recent government figures on pedestrian casualties reveal the startling news that light goods vehicles ("White Van Man") kill and injure fewer pedestrians per mile travelled than any other vehicle type. Cars do almost as well in the pedestrian safety league - but the real shock is the threat posed by buses and coaches - they killed 13 times as many pedestrians per mile travelled in 2003 than vans and 10 times more than cars.

"This data turns public perception upside down," said ABD spokesman Nigel Humphries. "Buses are presented as everyone's friend, with "White Van Man" cast as the villain. But it looks like the old adage "you might be run over by a bus tomorrow" still holds good."

These collision figures also challenge another carefully nurtured public perception - that of "speed kills". DfT research shows that light vans are the most likely category of vehicles to break 30mph speed limits, with buses being the least likely.

"The pedestrian safety record of these two vehicle types is the direct opposite of their tendency to stick to speed limits," continued Humphries. "This demonstrates yet again that government obsession with speed limits is counterproductive."

It is not hard to find reasons why buses have such a poor pedestrian safety record.

· Buses are a very tight fit through "Traffic calming" obstructions, meaning the driver is concentrating on fitting through the gap rather than watching for pedestrians stepping out - and he has no avoidance space if he does see them.

· Bus drivers have a propensity to avoid sudden braking or steering manoeuvres to avoid danger or discomfort to often unsecured passengers.

· Bus lanes allow these large, ponderous vehicles to speed unfettered through busy urban streets. It is their speed relative to other vehicles in this environment that catches out pedestrians and leads to collisions.

Clearly there needs to be much more attention given to road design, bus design and bus driver training. The design and use of bus lanes will also need to be looked at. Above all, the DfT need to get to grips with the real cause of road crashes and to stop just trying to make them happen at the speed limit!

"Perhaps those using pedestrian casualties to campaign against the use of 4x4 cars might find their time is better spent addressing these issues," commented ABD Chairman Brian Gregory.



A full analysis of the figures for all types of vehicle (with references) has been carried out by road safety group 'Safe Speed', and the following link is supplied with their permission:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/pedrisk.html

**************************************************

Press Enquiries: 0870 4442535

ABD general enquiries and membership: 07000-781544

For more information about the ABD visit our Website at http://www.abd.org.uk

The Association of British Drivers is run on a voluntary basis to lobby for the beleaguered British motorist:

"Reclaiming the roads for the people who pay for them"

"Demanding proper roads (and railways) in exchange for paying one seventh of all taxes"

"Debunking the nonsense you hear about the environmental impact of the car"

"Promoting effective road safety instead of the criminalisation of safe driving"

Adrian F

Bet this never gets reported on the BBC news

Vegescoob

No ,this must be wrong and no doubt spin doctors are, at this moment, working on a more "establishment friendly" interpretation of the figures.
"Buses and coaches are larger than vans and cars" said a Government spokesperson.
Therefore, perhaps they should go slower than vans and cars!

Clarebabes

Join the ABD NOW! If you haven't already. With more money, their voice may be heard a little louder......

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Nice one Nick

Mick

Adrian F

BTT

137 views! should have titled it "new girl seeks man"

the apathy of people

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Apathy?! Pah! I just joined the ABD, H*ll, I may even vote

Diesel

I'll be wearing my 'Labour Tough on crime & Gatso pic' T Shirt tomorrow at the poll booths

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

So you don't want me to vote Labour then ?

*ducks, and runs for cover*

GC8

If buses and coaches are so dangerous might we expect a forthcoming Labour government to ban them.....?

r32

This is really interesting information, I bet the Govt dont want this passed around.
Join the ABD I did.......

Mick

iTrader: (1)

OK - I've done it! Signed up too...

£20 seems a reasonable rate for the representation and information.

Cheers

Mick

RB5 Paul

Whatever happened to the green cross code?

Bloody great bus coming down the road? Stay on the path you idiot!! (And that goes for your cotton wool wrapped kids as well)

OllyK

That's me and the misses signed up for the ABD - looks like their membership numbers are swelling this week!

the moose

Buses operate predominantly in an urban environment, where miles are clocked up at low speeds. You don't tend to see them on motorways. In a full day, a bus might only travel 100 miles, but pass many thousands of pedestrians. White van man, on the M4, might do 500 miles in a day, passing potentially zero pedestrians.

As a result of this not-exactly-rocket-science analysis, I'm in no way surprised that buses account for more road deaths per miles travelled than cars, vans etc. If you had a strictly urban-vehicle comparison, the results would almost certainly be different.

Given their propensity to peddle half-baked ideas and alarmist propaganda, I'd rather saw my head off than join the ABD. Far from telling the truth to set right the wrongs done by Labour, they're simply peddling their own lies to "prove" their own points.

OllyK

Glad to see you read the full study, where they had figures for "All road types" and "Urban roads only". So on your basis, on the "urban roads only" we should see a different pattern - want to hazzard a guess if you are correct or not....







Ooops - busses are STILL the biggest risk

Cold Turkey

fight fire with fire

this is blairs legacy for politics in this country

Brendan Hughes

Wasn't this the study that made headlines about 4 mths ago? Or is it a new one?

the moose

I did read the survey quoted, and am not at all convinced. It merely states that of all accidents caused, more are caused by buses. It's not a true comparator, or course - buses are often the only vehicles allowed to operate in city or town centres, so by definition they MUST be more dangerous than anything else.

White vans don't drop off and pick up at bus stops, where there are large concentrations of people. Neither do they specifically call at schools rather than just passing them. They don't spend their time carrying the sorts of passengers (the old, the young, and the infirm) who are more vulnerable in an accident situation.

OF COURSE buses are likely to be involved in accidents - they're in high-risk areas, at high risk times (school start/finish times, for example). Put white vans in the same situations, at the some times, to the same concentration, and guess what ....... there'll be little difference.

The environment in which buses operate is dangerous. They will have more accidents. Why should this surprise people?

OllyK

The safespeed page is from 17/10/2004, so it's actually a bit older than that.

OllyK

I was just offering you the results that you asked for, which showed you were incorrect in your assumption.

The reasons why busses are high, even in an urban only environment are a different issue. They are also suggested in the report as well, and yes the nature of their purpose makes them a higher risk.

Does that mean we should ignore accidents caused by busses in urban environments or do we try and find ways fo making busses safer;
Seat belts for the passengers perhaps so emergency braking won't injure them, re-designed front ends in line with modern car designs to provide a safer impact zone for pedestrians, better barriers around bus stops etc etc?

Leslie

Its about time that a bit more attention was paid to the behaviour of pedestrians anyway.

These days they generally have no road sense at all. Time after time I see them step off the pavement to cross the road with their backs to the traffic and without looking to see if the road is clear. Either that or they seem to prefer to walk along the road instead of the pavement often making narrow roads much more difficult for the driver.

They seem to think it is ok to step out in front of vehicles at the last minute, especially on pedestrian crossings which is not giving the driver a fair chance. Its as though they feel they have a divine right to do what they like at the expense of the driver.

It is not right that drivers have to second guess thier actions as well as dealing with the rest of the complications around these days.

What happened to the Green Cross Code which used to be taught in schools? Or is that non PC as well?

Les

Diesel

Moose I would venture that cars ALWAYS outnumber buses 150:1 in any urban environment yet it seems buses inversely proportionately kill many more. Excluding the top end of Oxford St and a few other low speed pedestrianised places, buses mingle with other traffic 99% of the time. Nuff said – policy stinks!

hedgehog

You should also note that the figures are for buses and coaches. While coaches are not as common on the motorway as cars it is certainly not uncommon to see them there and they certainly cover a considerable distance on A roads and motorways.

In truth the more you delve into this one, and it has been around for some time so a lot of delving has been done, the more consistent the figures come with buses and coaches being more dangerous to pedestrians than other types of vehicle even when factors like the potential for exposure are considered. Why this is the case is something that is not so clear and for which a good explaination has never, that I know of, been offered.

As Leslie says we need to consider the actions of pedestrians in relation to road accidents. Over 80% of accidents involving pedestrians are determined by police to be caused by "entered carriageway without looking." After dark in excess of 80% of pedestrians killed in a road accident were found to be over the legal drink drive limit.

It is very, very rare for a vehicle to enter the footpath to kill a pedestrian but it is relatively common for a pedestrian to enter the carriageway to get knocked down. From the figures produced by police it is often the case that these pedestrians are drunk and don't even look to see if a vehicle is coming before stepping out. So, while there are many keen to impress upon the driver that they are in control of a lethal weapon there don't seem to be many keep to impress upon pedestrians that these lethal weapons are confined to the carriageway and that they ought not to step out in front of one.

ChrisB

Well said Leslie. Coming out of Stafford tonight about 6pm (so plenty of traffic). Four lane road with no central reservation. Traffic light controlled roundabout (with crossing) and then 100m up the road is an exit from a business park with traffic lights (again with crossing).

Some dozzy women with three kids is dodging traffic to cross the road half way between the two sets of lights. She crossed behind me when my lane had stopped but somebody in the inside lane had to anchor on to avoid her. She then starts giving the driver plenty of grief