hedgehog

The so called "road safety bill" is to be debated today so we should know when radar and laser detectors are to become illegal.

OllyK

I appreciate this is all potentially part of the slipperly slope, but radar and laser detectors aren't of much use anyway. Radar is not used anything like as often as it used to be and with laser, once you detect it, it's too late anyway.

RA combined with a PDA with the Talivan locations programmed in are more effective.

OllyK

As a matter of interest, what else is being discussed in the bill and is there actually anything in there to do with road safety??

555wrx

The only thing guaranteed about the road saftey bill is that it will be just that, another bloody bill for us to fork out for in one way or another.

hedgehog

Lots of interesting stuff, including the right for so called "vehicle examiners" to issue fixed penalty notices, alcohol ignition interlocks, drivers hours and the like:

http://www.publications.parliament.u...05010.i-v.html

OllyK

You could take that to mean a GPS device as well as this "detects" the location of speed cameras by means of comparative locations. Hmmm

hedgehog

I think the fact that you had to put "detect" in quotes probably highlights the issue here. In theory a GPS system doesn't "detect" a camera location as it is already in possession of this information, at no point does it engage in the detection of the laser or radar.

With this in mind I think the GPS systems will remain legal and even be encouraged. Remember that the administration see them as a way of getting people used to the idea of GPS speed control which is in the process of evolving into ISA. There is currently another thread on that subject.

OllyK

I appreciate what you are saying about GPS and have seen the previous threads on the topic, it's just that what is there is wooley and could be interpreted in such a manner as to include GPS. I'm just thinking ahead, let the government get all these GPS devices in cars and all set up then challenge it court that they are illegal under their own legislation, that could be interesting!

unclebuck

So, this seems to imply that if a car arrives for an MOT test and is found to have minor defects such as, say, a blown numberplate bulb or similar the test examinor will be obliged to issue the owner with an on the spot fine??

Rob D

Quote on Blackspots website.

"The current parliamentary activity which has been poorly documented in the press, is the first phase to decide if the bill will be progressed. If the bill is progressed, the process then starts to debate publicly and privately what they will and won’t ban, expected to take around 12 months. If that is agreed, it takes 6 months to become law, so the Department for Transport have confirmed in writing that the earliest any change could take effect is the second half of 2006, if at all.

OllyK

I think they are refering to the vehicle inspectorate, the ones who more commonly pull trucks over (accompanied by the Police) to check for vehicle defects, red derv etc. They can slap prohibition orders on vehicles, i.e. can't be moved or must be fixed in 7 days etc, but AFAIK, they can't currently issue a fixed penalty notice, that needs to be done by an attendant copper.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

A slightly less paranoid interpretation (sorry mate, I know you mean well!) would simply be to do with ease and practicality of enforcement.

My Pocket PC, for example, is my MP3 player, calendar/diary, web browser, email client, sat nav system and real-time traffic information display. There's nothing wrong with any of those.

As part of the sat nav function, it also highlights the locations of Subaru dealers, car parks and filling stations. Nowt wrong with that either.

Another file includes the locations of places which have been deemed accident black spots, and it warns me of those too. Here's the problem - should the presence of such data make the device illegal, and is the average copper actually able to analyse the device and tell the difference? (The fact that the users of such devices actually have fewer accidents must be so inconvenient!)

Take the law on mobile phones in cars as another example. No doubt the powers that be would love to have banned hands-free kits too - but how do you tell if someone's using one? From outside the car, someone on a hands free kit looks as though they could equally well be singing along to the radio or talking to a passenger. Again, impossible to enforce in practise, so the hands free kit gets allowed.

At the end of the day, it's the same thing with speed. They can't measure and quantify danger and there's no such thing as a stupidity camera, sadly. So, they measure the one thing that can be measured, then try to convince us that it's the most important factor.

OllyK

And people buy in to that crap and wonder why road death rates haven't decreased significantly since the policy was introduced. We don't need speed cameras or even stupidy cameras, we need human being with intelligence out on the roads dealing with those that are driving badly, regardless of the speed they are travelling at.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Actually I'd argue that by then, it's still a bit late.

There is no other piece of heavy machinery which requires 100% concentration at all times to prevent loss of life, and can be legally operated by someone who only ever once passed a simple test of basic competence.

It's training that's the problem IMHO. The only contact most of us have with someone better qualified as a driver, after passing the 'L' test, is if we get stopped by the police for committing a motoring offence or having an accident. By then it's too late. Given the choice between taking an advanced test and having a GPS nanny-box shoved in my car, I know what I'd choose - along with most of the rest of the driving population I shouldn't wonder.

OllyK

I agree - better training in the first place is needed, but we already have a lot of people out there driving, unless we plan to re-test everybody!

I have RA, PDA with Sat Nav and Camera POI's and my IAM badge

Brendan Hughes

““speed assessment equipment detection device” means a device the purpose, or one of the purposes, of which is to detect, or interfere with the operation of, equipment used to assess the speed of motor vehicles.”

My glasses are illegal then, if they help me read my speedo.

Turbohot

unclebuck

Ah, my mistake. Cheers. (phew!!)

dba

Well,if all gatsos are at accident blackspots,which they are supposed to be,then all the manufacturers have to do is rename their devices as 'Accident blackspot detectors' using the gatsos as reference points

the Government can't get out of that one

Adrian F

The Government can do what they like they have a massive majority and just force through any ideas that they want!

They could ban GPS devices storing locations of camera's if they chose as they used to make many MOD sites secret just by not putting them on maps even though the Russians could see them on their Satellite Photo's we weren’t allowed to know about them. Rules as daft as they seem are frequently introduced by the Government and then strictly enforced by the state. How many daft speed limits do you know?

dba

not on todays evidence they can't,but then again I doubt many Lords have Road Angels

dsmith

If only a group of people who had been trying to explain the governments ever increasing desire to control and legislate what, where and how people live their lives would impact more and more of us had been listend to....

...instead of being shouted down in a blatant show of historic class prejudice and inability to see the real issues being debated.

Very soon everyone will have the choice - do you want to support a government that believes the only solution to any issue is more legislation, more beauracy and less personal repsonsibility and freedom ?

dsmith

And dba - I doubt many of the lords are terrorists who are at risk of being locked up under house arrest - but they can still see a rushed and truly crap piece of legislation when its put in front of them.

dba

indeed they can,fair play to them,but then again,they aren't the same as the Lords of old,most of them have actually worked for a living

lozzaloz

And you'd be surprised who DOES buy these devices!!!

pbee

what actually happened any outcome worth listening too ?