do i need HDmi on a TV now/yet?
16 February 2005, 01:12 AM
#1
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do i need HDmi on a TV now/yet?
Went looking at the LCD / Plasmas big tv's yesterday.
sales guy said i should get one that was HDmi compatable...as HDmi will become the norm in the next few years!!!
its like a Scart socket cnnection.. (that looks like USB connector).. but better he said!
Now... do i spent the extra on a HDmi TV... and not be able to feel the benifit of better pic quality till i have Satalite Box/ DVD player/ Video etc all with HDmi fitment.
or do i get a normal HD tv and take my chance for the next 5yrs... then go HDmi when all the TV cmpnies are doing HDmi
if i buy a normal HD tv..... i'll still be able to use it in a few years wont i?
Phil
sales guy said i should get one that was HDmi compatable...as HDmi will become the norm in the next few years!!!
its like a Scart socket cnnection.. (that looks like USB connector).. but better he said!
Now... do i spent the extra on a HDmi TV... and not be able to feel the benifit of better pic quality till i have Satalite Box/ DVD player/ Video etc all with HDmi fitment.
or do i get a normal HD tv and take my chance for the next 5yrs... then go HDmi when all the TV cmpnies are doing HDmi
if i buy a normal HD tv..... i'll still be able to use it in a few years wont i?
Phil
16 February 2005, 08:09 AM
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personally I would, but as r32 says, only if you are not intending to change soon.
Even if your component dont have it, it is worth it for future proofing.
I have back to back tested my pioneer dvd player through my sony hs20 projector and the difference is less than marginal.
still worth it though.
Even if your component dont have it, it is worth it for future proofing.
I have back to back tested my pioneer dvd player through my sony hs20 projector and the difference is less than marginal.
still worth it though.
16 February 2005, 09:03 AM
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High Definition signals wont be coming out til mid next year and only by sky using it on 1 or 2 channels for the first year or 2 while they test it as such. its gonna be at LEAST 5 years before this is introduced across a range of channels IMO and isnt worth thinking too much about. we just spent 2k on a Panasonic Viera 37" Plasma and didnt even worry about it not being compatible. obviously its your choice but there you go.
16 February 2005, 09:52 AM
#5
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in my mind Dave thats how i look at it.
the 'extras' i'll add to the TV won't have HDmi... so no point.
as long as the tv is HD i should just go for that??
Phil
the 'extras' i'll add to the TV won't have HDmi... so no point.
as long as the tv is HD i should just go for that??
Phil
16 February 2005, 09:59 AM
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Well the TV might be HD "ready" in other words it'll be future proof, but that future is 5 years away so your looking at 2 tellys. both pretty similar but you favor telly A cause its HD ready but its a few hundred more than telly B thats not HD ready. which do you go for. depends really, in 5 years I'd like to think I'll be looking at a newer range of plasmas or what ever the latest technology maybe in that time. the Viera if its still going it can sit in the bedroom (or the new cinema/games room Im trying to wangle outta the misses 
lol ) to be honest I wouldnt worry about it. if its HD ready and its the telly you want get it, what can you lose?
lol ) to be honest I wouldnt worry about it. if its HD ready and its the telly you want get it, what can you lose?
16 February 2005, 12:24 PM
#7
I wonder if sombody could straighten me out on this (very very technical...unless you want to go counting each physical pixel on your TV screen 
)....
As I understand it the PAL transmission format has 625 lines, and HDTV has much more from 720 to 1080.
Now comparing PAL to SHVS and VHS you have 625 vs 400 vs 250 lines...yet they are all accomodated on the same screen without shrinking the picture, so I guess the picture is streched to use more lines on the TV. So one VHS scan line is duplicated 3 times when converted to PAL.
Now I take it that HDTV is the broadcast protocall/format?
Now heres the very teccy questioning....how may physical (note physical not PAL) lines does a normal non HD 27" CRT widescreen have? They have more that 625 lines, Typically, on the vertical axis it's about 10 lines per 5mm, so a 27" TV has about 700 physical lines.
So with PAL broadcast you have 625 lines being stretched to cover 720lines on a current TV.
Now, does HDTV mean that all the 700 lines on the same picture tube are taken full advantage - if it has the suporting decoding circuitry? Or does a HDTV have even more physical lines on the tube to take advantage of the higher number of lines in the signal transmission...or does it just downgrade the resolution to suit (like Terrestrial PAL TV to VHS)? In other words is the phsyical picture tube on a HDTV any higher resolution than a normal TV?
Ultimately, how many lines does the RGB input use? And does it take full advantage of the number available lines on the TV screen?
If so then a current TV with RGB inputs can use all the physical lines on the tube and thus could use a HDTV box with the associated picture advantage. However, it could be possible some TVs may convert the RGB input back to PAL or component signals, thus losing the maximum number of lines and your stuck at 625lines.
)....As I understand it the PAL transmission format has 625 lines, and HDTV has much more from 720 to 1080.
Now comparing PAL to SHVS and VHS you have 625 vs 400 vs 250 lines...yet they are all accomodated on the same screen without shrinking the picture, so I guess the picture is streched to use more lines on the TV. So one VHS scan line is duplicated 3 times when converted to PAL.
Now I take it that HDTV is the broadcast protocall/format?
Now heres the very teccy questioning....how may physical (note physical not PAL) lines does a normal non HD 27" CRT widescreen have? They have more that 625 lines, Typically, on the vertical axis it's about 10 lines per 5mm, so a 27" TV has about 700 physical lines.
So with PAL broadcast you have 625 lines being stretched to cover 720lines on a current TV.
Now, does HDTV mean that all the 700 lines on the same picture tube are taken full advantage - if it has the suporting decoding circuitry? Or does a HDTV have even more physical lines on the tube to take advantage of the higher number of lines in the signal transmission...or does it just downgrade the resolution to suit (like Terrestrial PAL TV to VHS)? In other words is the phsyical picture tube on a HDTV any higher resolution than a normal TV?
Ultimately, how many lines does the RGB input use? And does it take full advantage of the number available lines on the TV screen?
If so then a current TV with RGB inputs can use all the physical lines on the tube and thus could use a HDTV box with the associated picture advantage. However, it could be possible some TVs may convert the RGB input back to PAL or component signals, thus losing the maximum number of lines and your stuck at 625lines.
Last edited by ALi-B; 16 February 2005 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Slight cock up in my caluclation...700lines..oops :o
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16 February 2005, 12:49 PM
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I would be guessing but yes the HDTV signal would be of a much higher resolution but depends on different screens.
Im half following what your trying ask but if your looking for a proper answer trying asking here www.avforums.com
Im half following what your trying ask but if your looking for a proper answer trying asking here www.avforums.com
16 February 2005, 01:33 PM
#9
I knwo it's higher resolution format...but is the actual physical picture tube any different - seeing it is already 700lines on a 27"?
I don't go to the av forums anymore...too many people with half a clue
I don't go to the av forums anymore...too many people with half a clue
Last edited by ALi-B; 16 February 2005 at 03:05 PM. Reason: slight cock up with my calculations...it's 700lines...oops :o
16 February 2005, 02:58 PM
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now i'm lost!
16 February 2005, 03:14 PM
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Ali
The New HD broadcasts will be up to 1080 lines so you will need a panel with up to that number of lines to get the benefits of the higher resolution. Going to RGB doesn't increase the number of lines, merely improves the signal path by the way those lines are transmitted. To improve the number of lines you need to look at your source i.e. DVD has more than VHS.
For those that have seen A B comparisons check that the panels of pj's were allowed to use their full resolution on HDMI, the pioneer panels for example will only allow the increased resoultion if selected in the set-up menu.
Should you get an HD ready panel? Its up to you but it will be a good 3yrs until it is widely exploited.
Hope this helps.
www.visionarysystemsuk.com
www.bestpricetv.com
The New HD broadcasts will be up to 1080 lines so you will need a panel with up to that number of lines to get the benefits of the higher resolution. Going to RGB doesn't increase the number of lines, merely improves the signal path by the way those lines are transmitted. To improve the number of lines you need to look at your source i.e. DVD has more than VHS.
For those that have seen A B comparisons check that the panels of pj's were allowed to use their full resolution on HDMI, the pioneer panels for example will only allow the increased resoultion if selected in the set-up menu.
Should you get an HD ready panel? Its up to you but it will be a good 3yrs until it is widely exploited.
Hope this helps.
www.visionarysystemsuk.com
www.bestpricetv.com
16 February 2005, 03:19 PM
#12
Ok, after the realisation of my embarassing error and since my re-calculations of line numbers on a standard CRT (700ish depending on make). A GENUINE HDTV screen would be an improvement, as they do appear to use more physical lines on the screen.
However...it must be noted that it must have a genuine high resolution/screen tube to take full advantage of the HDTV format. I fear that some cheap TV's that come out on the market wil be labelled "HDTV compatible" yet still use standard resolution screans.
So, be careful of what your buying....I noticed Gateways's Plasma HDTV is only capeable of 768 lines. So it is useless for HDTV broadcast resolutions above 720 lines (HDTV being capeable of up to 1080 lines). SO it's not a high defintion screen, but is HDTV compatible...very naughty if you ask me
However...it must be noted that it must have a genuine high resolution/screen tube to take full advantage of the HDTV format. I fear that some cheap TV's that come out on the market wil be labelled "HDTV compatible" yet still use standard resolution screans.
So, be careful of what your buying....I noticed Gateways's Plasma HDTV is only capeable of 768 lines. So it is useless for HDTV broadcast resolutions above 720 lines (HDTV being capeable of up to 1080 lines). SO it's not a high defintion screen, but is HDTV compatible...very naughty if you ask me
16 February 2005, 03:28 PM
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This is no different from buying a DVD and plasma for £1500, is will be sh1te! Connected by RGB cable or otherwise.
I think it will be a long time before the general public realise that there are grades to these things. If you were told a tyre is a tyre, they are black and round and all do the same job so you may as well get the cheapest you would think that person was mad. The GP doesn't see that though, as long as they can tell their mates they have a plasma that will do. Shame really because they are wasting their money.
Should I stop ranting now??
www.visionarysystemsuk.com
www.bestpricetv.com
I think it will be a long time before the general public realise that there are grades to these things. If you were told a tyre is a tyre, they are black and round and all do the same job so you may as well get the cheapest you would think that person was mad. The GP doesn't see that though, as long as they can tell their mates they have a plasma that will do. Shame really because they are wasting their money.
Should I stop ranting now??
www.visionarysystemsuk.com
www.bestpricetv.com
16 February 2005, 04:10 PM
#14
Going to RGB doesn't increase the number of lines
VHS? SVHS? PAL?
I presumes it's restricted to 625 As TV's usually have to adhere to PAL standards
Just I thought if a standard TV already has 700lines, PAL uses 625. Now potentially, RGB allows for much higher - you can wire a the RGB output on a computer graphics card directly to a Scart RGB input on a TV, without any fancy boxes, it will work - as long as you set the right resolution and get the timing signals right, which is not easy. Most people who have done this have stuck to normal PAL/NTSC timing and resolution, But, has anyone tried anything higher on a modern multi-standard TV - theorectically you could squeeze a bit more out of a modern TV if it would let you.
16 February 2005, 04:16 PM
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You could get a few more lines out of your tv if you were inclined to. However the difference in picture qualtiy would be marginal. You would probably notice the same improvement by putting better cables on. (the better cables would not increase the resolution or course but would improve the picture quality)
16 February 2005, 04:28 PM
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Ali, the RGB connection on a standard PAL TV does not increase the number of lines or alter the line total at all, it simply separates the red, green and blue elements of the video signal. A standard PAL TV set up is not suitable for the proposed HDTV broadcasts for two reasons:
1) It cannot display (as you say) more than 700 lines, PAL being 625, HDTV being more than 1000.
2) It will not be able to recieve the HDTV signal without a new HDTV reciever box. The digital HDTV broadcast is totally different to the current digital PAL signal.
If a plasma is advertised as HDTV it MUST be capable of displaying the required 1000+ lenes of resolution. If it cannot, it is not HDTV compatible. Many plasmas/lcd screens don't come with internal recievers, so an external HDTV decoder will be required.
There also seems to be some confusion over HDMI, which was the point of this thread. HDMI is simply a connection standard that represents an evolution of the existing DVI connection that some flat screens have. Whereas DVI allows the transmission of the video signal in digital format into a flat screen from a suitably equipped DVD player or graphics card, HDMI allows digital multichannel audio to pass down the same cable as well. It's fully backwards-compatible with the DVI standard.
1) It cannot display (as you say) more than 700 lines, PAL being 625, HDTV being more than 1000.
2) It will not be able to recieve the HDTV signal without a new HDTV reciever box. The digital HDTV broadcast is totally different to the current digital PAL signal.
If a plasma is advertised as HDTV it MUST be capable of displaying the required 1000+ lenes of resolution. If it cannot, it is not HDTV compatible. Many plasmas/lcd screens don't come with internal recievers, so an external HDTV decoder will be required.
There also seems to be some confusion over HDMI, which was the point of this thread. HDMI is simply a connection standard that represents an evolution of the existing DVI connection that some flat screens have. Whereas DVI allows the transmission of the video signal in digital format into a flat screen from a suitably equipped DVD player or graphics card, HDMI allows digital multichannel audio to pass down the same cable as well. It's fully backwards-compatible with the DVI standard.
16 February 2005, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Pbr
If a plasma is advertised as HDTV it MUST be capable of displaying the required 1000+ lenes of resolution. If it cannot, it is not HDTV compatible. Many plasmas/lcd screens don't come with internal recievers, so an external HDTV decoder will be required.
There also seems to be some confusion over HDMI, which was the point of this thread. HDMI is simply a connection standard that represents an evolution of the existing DVI connection that some flat screens have. Whereas DVI allows the transmission of the video signal in digital format into a flat screen from a suitably equipped DVD player or graphics card, HDMI allows digital multichannel audio to pass down the same cable as well. It's fully backwards-compatible with the DVI standard.
There also seems to be some confusion over HDMI, which was the point of this thread. HDMI is simply a connection standard that represents an evolution of the existing DVI connection that some flat screens have. Whereas DVI allows the transmission of the video signal in digital format into a flat screen from a suitably equipped DVD player or graphics card, HDMI allows digital multichannel audio to pass down the same cable as well. It's fully backwards-compatible with the DVI standard.
HDMi is a media interface which allows you to keep the picture and sound in the digital domain from the DVD player, perhaps through a home cinema amplifier and directly into the TV.
Currently you will convert the digital information on the DVD into an analougue signal which you then may switch through amp and into the plasma screen. At this point the plasma has to convert the signal back into the digital domain to construct the picture.
HDMi does not give you more resolution but takes away the digital-analogue-digital conversion losses.
You get what you pay for with plasma panels and some of the budget panels are very poor with digital artifacts, smearing and lip-sync problems.
Cheers
Lee
16 February 2005, 07:46 PM
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As said further back in this thread, whilst theres going to be some HD broadcasts in the UK in the next year it's going to be a fair while before theres any sort of content to pick from in high definition format.
This in mind, by all means if there is a screen which is an absolute steal and happens to come with HDMI/DVI connectivity by all means go for it but don't buy under the assumption that you're going to be watching full flow HDTV this time next year.
Having said that, when HD broadcasts do arrive they'll be well worth the wait. We currently have a High-Definition satellite broadcast VS Freeview VS Sky Digital set up on Plasma screens in the office and the difference really is amazing
This in mind, by all means if there is a screen which is an absolute steal and happens to come with HDMI/DVI connectivity by all means go for it but don't buy under the assumption that you're going to be watching full flow HDTV this time next year.
Having said that, when HD broadcasts do arrive they'll be well worth the wait. We currently have a High-Definition satellite broadcast VS Freeview VS Sky Digital set up on Plasma screens in the office and the difference really is amazing
16 February 2005, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by C h a z
We should be getting our Euro1080 system setup on Sunday. It will either be going on the 50" Pioneer or the Sim2 HT300 Link.
17 February 2005, 11:38 AM
#23
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Thanks Logic Lee.
the thread has gone off on one.
I know i want a HD tv.......
BUT what i was asking is do i need a HD tv that has the HDmi fitment.
Tv's i'm looking at are already HD.... but don't have the HDmi fitting
the guy i know at Currys was pushing me towards this Pioneer system...
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_...onomy_id=62-63
£2999
Phil
the thread has gone off on one.
I know i want a HD tv.......
BUT what i was asking is do i need a HD tv that has the HDmi fitment.
Tv's i'm looking at are already HD.... but don't have the HDmi fitting
the guy i know at Currys was pushing me towards this Pioneer system...
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_...onomy_id=62-63
£2999
Phil
17 February 2005, 11:36 PM
#26
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like this as a good value option
http://homecinema.tiny.com/packages.php?prodid=12863
Tiny Focus 4280 42" Plasma TV Package
£2099
Phil
http://homecinema.tiny.com/packages.php?prodid=12863
Tiny Focus 4280 42" Plasma TV Package
£2099
Phil
18 February 2005, 09:19 AM
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Get away from the TINY!!!!!!!!!!!1 dont touch it, dont look at it, just forget TINY exsist. MAJOR problems with pretty much most of their plasmas.
Agree about that Pioneer, Quality bit of kit.
Agree about that Pioneer, Quality bit of kit.
18 February 2005, 09:34 AM
#28
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The Tiny stuff is just utter w4nk. Your Scooby cost you £24,000 I bought a car for £25 so you must have been screwed. No, your £25 car is cr4p.
You get what you pay for, if you see a screen for £3k and then then buy the same model for £2500 then you've got a good deal. If you see a screen for £3k and then buy a different one for £2500 then you have bought something that is not as good. You have not had a good deal, you have wasted your money.
You get what you pay for, if you see a screen for £3k and then then buy the same model for £2500 then you've got a good deal. If you see a screen for £3k and then buy a different one for £2500 then you have bought something that is not as good. You have not had a good deal, you have wasted your money.
18 February 2005, 09:39 AM
#29
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To look at it another way. Say you keep your screen for a minimum of three years, the upgrade cost to go from the Tiny to the Pioneer would be less than £1 a day! If someone offered to change your cr4ppy Tiny screen to an HD pioneer one for a pound would you say no?