unclebuck

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/4262833.stm

They just can't stop can they.


Dear, oh dear.

InvisibleMan

well at least hes being honest & not being two-faced. If you believe something then you believe something, why say something else just to please others...

brickboy

It's not anti-semitism, it's anti-Daily Mail group. They deserve it

turboman786

Yawn, anti semitism is the perfect tool for Jews to do whatever they want and avoid any criticism for it...itsa like the race card, they simply play it ad nauseum. The Arabs are semites.....dont see many Jews upholding there rights.....oo err...besides which the vast majority of UK Jews arent even semitic!!!!!

dsmith

Nice

Definately something that shouldnt go unquestioned (Even though Red Ken is hardly new labour)

pslewis

Nowt wrong with speaking your mind ......

A lesson the Tories could learn from instead of speaking with forked tongue!

Pete

Holy Ghost

let's face it, he's not a good advert for newt-fancying is he?

Angry

Just thought this was worth repeating

gsm1

The Evening Standard is a pile of stinking ****e. Maybe they should apologise to everyone they've offended over the years.

moses

ken livingstone doesnt have a single anti semitism and racist bone in his body, i luv that guy, he didnt know he was jewish till he told him, but it doesnt stop ken mincing his words and still calls him that, hats of to the guy


he def aint anti semite

but jews are anti ken anyway, he never caused them any harm, just cause he welcomed sheik yusof al qardawi in london, coz yusof was a part of the islamic talk that was taking place, they had it in for him.

all coz the sheikh agreed with resistance against israeli soldiers and occupation.



long live ken

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Why did he ask him if he was a German war criminal in the first place, bizzarre question as the guy doesnt look much more than 35 ?

I dont think the comment was Anti Semetic, it was Anti reporter sticking cameras in your face with a slight anti **** overtone.

gsm1

It wasn't anti-semetic at all. This is just the Standard and the Mail group scraping the barrel to try and p*ss on Livingstone.

Brit_in_Japan

I think the background was that Ken was feeling harassed by journos from the Standard and what he was implying was that the journo was rather unsympathetic for harassing Ken because "he was just following orders" (sic).

In no way can Ken be called a racist or anti-semitic, no way. He has a long history of opposing racism and sexism of all types. I think the Board of Deputies of British Jews has made a mistake in trying to persue Ken about this because they know that Ken does not hold such views. It might backfire on them and make Jews appear somehow more "precious" than other people with mention of Judaism or ****'s off-limits to everyone.

If you actually read what Ken said the implied criticism was of jounalists and comparing them to those unthinking and morally vacuous individuals who helped perpetrate the holocast. Maybe the journalist was was hurt because there was a grain of truth in the comparison?? IMHO the journalist was overly sensitve and dare I say it looking for a big story for his paper. Radio 4's Today programme talked to some emminent Jewish people who conceeded that what Ken said probably wasn't racist, so this has all been blown up for political reasons and sales of newspapers.

Ken should apologize for getting angry and hope that will be the end of it.

SJ_Skyline

Why should Ken get away with something like this when Ron Atkinson was hung out to dry for a similarly racist comment?

Buckrogers

The words "pot" and "kettle" spring to mind.....

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....&postcount=116

Lum

Much as I can't stand Ken Livingstone and his policies this accusation is stupid it's a valid analogy based on a historical event IMO

<Basil_Fawlty> The guests are Jewish.. *whispers* Don't mention the war!

Iain Young

Because it wasn't a racist comment.

Ken Livingstone was just expressing an honest opinion about the media hound that has been constantly on his back for the last 25 years. Maybe it was an unfortunate turn of phrase, (he has never been known for hiding what he feels or mincing his words), but there was nothing sinister in it.

Just another typical conservative / media / pc brigade reaction, blowing things out of all proportion again...

Btw, I'm no fan of Ken Livingstone, (or the Labour party), but I respect him for actually speaking his mind. Something I wish a lot of the others would do rather than just saying what they think people want to hear all the time...

Leslie

Wasn't Livingstone writing a column for the Evening Standard for a period of time?

Best all round if he apologised anyway just because it is an unpleasant remark to make to anyone. That would remove the excuse to make a fuss.

Les

celticpilgrim

Now, I'm no anti-semite, nor do I really give a toss about Ken...

BUT...and correct me if I'm wrong here..

Although they suffered more than anybody else, the camps were filled with more than Jewish people - what about the gypsies, the handicapped, homosexuals, comunists, etc, you don't hear a gay gypsy berating him from his wheelchair, do you?

Germany wasn't the only country to have concentration camps, Russia was every bit as efficient in disposing of opponents (yes I know he likend him to a 'German' camp guard). He was obviously having a pop at the guy for hiding behind the 'only following orders' routine, and to me the best/worst example of this was indeed the guard in the concentration camp.

What happened in places like Auschwitz and Belsen was terrible, and we should never forget man's inhumanity to man, but no one nation has the monopoly on suffering and persecution, as most countries have seen it from both sides.

I don't think for a minute that Ken meant it as an anti-semitic remark, and those that think that it is are either too sensitive, or have a hidden agenda, and before you know it we are all treading on eggshells and overcompensating incase we say something that MIGHT cause offence to somebody or other. Isn't it time to ditch the over-sensitive PC bullshtt?
(cue the opening of another can of wriggly things!!)

<Rant off>

Mungo

I can't stand Ken, but in this instance the journo involved is making a huge song and dance about nothing. The comment made by Brit_in_Japan about the journo getting hurt by the truth in Ken's accusation (just following orders, etc) is probably just about right.

SJ_Skyline

Not as good as my Blunkett one....

unclebuck

Actually, it seems that there may be a silver lining to all this. Livingstone is still refusing to apologise for his words and the argument is escalating.

Good news as the row is now threatening to overshadow the International Olympic Committee Evaluation Commission’s visit to London to inspect the city's bid to host the Games in 2012. If it will disrupt that then it has to be a good thing. Keep it up Ken - lol

moses

he shouldnt apoligise mate, he called him something and he didnt know he was a jew but when he did find out, he wouldnt have backtracked , why should he, he didnt mean harm just the way their hounding him

andrewdelvard

Agree 100%

moses

thanks andrew he spoke to the journo as just as any other human being he would have spoken to if ones angry

dba

good for him,about time someone stood up against the appalling pc world we have started to live in

he has apologising for causing offence,but not for using the words he did,it was a spur of the moment thing and he is a normal bloke,nothing more nothing less,these people that get upset about these things need to have a chat with themselves

the newspapers have even wheeled out an Auswitz survivor who lost all his family etc etc.,thats just letting the thing get out of control

KL has a 30 yr record of fighting racism and discrimination,

Ted Maul

in today's language anti semitic means anti jewish. don't go into one on they definition of the word semite etc etc... If I'm feeling gay today am I happy or do I fancy blokes.

also, how do Jews do what they want and avoid criticism for it? or are you blurring this with zionists?


bit concerned about the tone of this reply...disappointing as I thought you were quite level headed.

Lum

Everytime someone has a go at someone these days and they turn out to be Jewish, it seems the reply is always [ALI-G]"Is it cos I is Jewish"[/ALI-G] and of course nothing to do with the fact that the person is being an **** or is the learer of the Tory party or any of the millions of other reasons why you may want to have a go at someone.

Soon it will become illegal to criticise anyone who isn't the same colour and religion as you, at which point I'll start my own religion and not allow anyone else to join, I can live tax free and anyone who complains will be arrested for being anti-lumist, even the Inland Revenue.

turboman786

Ted I try my best to be level headed, and you are spot on that the distinction must be drawn between zionists and Jews.

In my post I was referring to the fact that the Jewish community as a whole use anti semitism whenever they are cirticised for anything to do with their religion/race....and in most cases I am talking about their stance on Israel/Zionism. I am NOT anti-Jewish in any way shape or form. Howvere I feel that in this day and age, it is OK for anyone to slate Islam with impunity, yet the slightest comment towards a Jew makes you a ****/anti semetic etc....I am not PC but the double stands hurts me.

Re anti semitism referring to being anti-Jewish, yes I agree this is the context in which it is used..i was merely playing devil's advocate...but I stand by my observation that most Eurpean Jews are NOT of semitic background, and therefore the term should perhaps be rephrased as anti Jewish/anti zionist as applicable....

moses

one more thing ted my friend, jews even hijacked the word semite

it belongs to the arabs too, arabs are semites, but the jews seem to hijack that word as well