Brendan Hughes

Here they are:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/p...seholders.html

darts_aint_sport

In general it seems fair enough

However, I don't see the problem in setting a trap to catch an intruder. An intruder is an intruder whether a trap is set or not, and should be treated as such. Unless someone is holding a gun to their head, if and intruder is entering a property of their own free will, they must face the consequences!

IMO.

Flatcapdriver

I'd forget about ringing the Police as your first resort because with the best will in the world, their response times will not be good enough. I'd still recommend that anyone who tackles an intruder either refuses to make a statement until they have consulted legal representation or at least gives their verson of events with a heavy bias towards themselves.

Flatcapdriver

The problem with your example is that it's premeditated which is where that chap in Norfolk came unstuck, plus he shot the intruder in the back. Personally, I didn't have a problem with his actions but he did break the law which is why he was subsequently found guilty and sent to prison.

Dream Weaver

That statement is poo

It still doesnt say what reasonable force is, and doesn't set out EXACTLY what you can do in a situation.

So if I get robbed tonight, and a burglar barges into our bedroom and I give him a huge head shot from the rounders bat that just happens to be in the bedroom (whilst we are moving stuff about) and he dies what happens???

Assume that he was trying to attack me/get car keys etc etc.

The law should be simple - if an intruder wants to risk all, including their life by entering MY premises without consent, then they should face the consequences knowing that nothing will happen legally to me if they are killed/tortured whatever.

I honestly belive death is too good for these morons that continually burgle

Leslie

And don't forget the elderly lady who was fed up of continuous attempts by burglars so she put up some barbed wire in front of her windows on her own property. She was ordered by the council to remove it in case a would be burglar was injured by it!

Its almost laughable but in my opinion more like pitiable!

Les

ajm

I would like to see some more realistic examples. It is still not clear what you are entitled to do if you cannot physically restrain them with minimal force.

Your choices may be to offer no resistance at all, or to use a weapon that will cause serious injury - no in between. This must surely be a common scenario.

In this instance you will end up seriously wounding an intruder in order to exercise your right to stop them taking your belongings. Would they still class this as reasonable? Or would they expect you to forego your right to protect your belongings unless you can restrain them without serious injury?

I think it is unreasonable to place the burden of assessing reasonable force on the victim. Having read this I do not feel that I would be any better prepared to make that assessment in the heat of the moment.

Brendan Hughes

Eh? It never can. And if it did lay out all the permutations of exactly what you could do, whether it was night, day, early morning, you had a rounders bat, gun, kitchen knife, you had a baby in the next room or not... you'd then correctly complain that a) it was mad to be expected to memorise that lot, and b) you certainly wouldn't be expected to do the right thing in a time of panic.

Bubba po

It says you can hit someone with an object that is to hand with a force that could result in their death, and you don't have to wait for them to attack you first. What the hell more do you want!!

Flatcapdriver

It's still a bit of a grey area. It was explained to me by the local Community Watch bobby that if I was to smack an intruder over the head with my Maglite, then this probably wouldn't be a problem. However, if I used a rounders bat that was beside my bed then any prosecution could use this as evidence that I intended to clobber any in advance. In other words, it was pre-meditated which is a no, no.

Brendan Hughes

Re the old "grossly disproportionate" thing that the Tories wanted, it always reminded me of the closing moments of the Blues Brothers chase, when you heard the controller say "Use of excessive force IS authorised"

the moose

After all the fuss over this, I was amazed to find that there had been 11 prosecutions of householders for using excessive force in the last 15 years. Only 6 of these were successful, and one of these, as we know, was Tony Martin, who laid in wait, with a shotgun, and even then only got done because he shot the intruder in the back, a second time, as he was running away.

If that's how extreme you have to be, then I'll take my chances with whatever comes to hand.

Tiggs

someone breaks in your house...you are in fear..you grab something and wack them...not a problem.

what do ppl want the law to be? that you can take them hostage and torture them to death?

ajm

That might be good enough for you, but you will excuse me if I ask for further clarification before phoning the police the next time I have a dead burglar lying on my floor!

To my mind, alternative corpse disposal is still a better option in these dark times...

Brendan Hughes

(For those of you who are fans of Goodfellas and the Sopranos, we may need to clarify something in the above statement...)

SJ_Skyline

Quality

Flatcapdriver

That's a good point but I think the problem is about perception more than anything else. Rightly or wrongly, the law appears to be skewed in favour of the criminals in the eyes of the generally law abiding population and at the end of the day we shouldn't really have to worry too much about the rights of burglars and the protection of our homes.

You read about abuses of the European Human Rights legislation which seems to have been hijacked by people who misuse it for their own ends and assume that you could be on the wrong end of it, if confronted by a burglar in your own home.

rgv_stu

i dont see the problem with shooting them with a 12 bore running away or not. if they wernt up to no good in the first place then they wouldnt have got shot would they ??

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

I see a massive increase in sales of maglites finest "nightwatchman" 3D cell torch.
I have a torch in each room in case of power failure.
The biggest one happens to be in the master bedroom just by the door to the hallway/landing

ChrisB

Personally, I reckon a **** round the bonce with my 4D Maglite would hurt as much as rounders bat

Torture sounds good - break out the Black & Decker to do their knee-caps!

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

ok then smart-****



4D

Dream Weaver

So if you were attacked, and had a samurai sword as a display piece, and used it to lop their head off then that is fine.

I still think they could give a few examples. If I batter a burglar with a rounders bat until he leaves my house then what happens to me???? What is reasonable force?

My interpretation would be to batter him with said bat to within an inch of his life, but the law would probably disagree.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

split the difference and go for 1/2 an inch

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

"A man who laid in wait for a burglar on commercial premises in Cheshire, before beating him up, throwing him into a pit and setting him on fire "

Unfortunately, it transpired that the "burgular" was -in point of fact- the gas man who had been let in earlier to read the meter!

Tiggs

How much clearer can this be????? if you fear for your life use force.


If you batter someone to death was there no point where you ceased to be in fear of your life? what about when he stopped breathing? What about when his head split open on your **** pile?


The law will never say (and shouldnt) you can do what you like to people.

But it does say you can defend yourself.......also...as there are so few cases of this beinga problem does it even matte?

Mr Sympathy

Reasonable force eh?

I will be moving my hairspray and disposable lighter from door pocket of scoob to use in the house then. Carjackers, burglars, same scum. just enough to put em down then finish the job off.

john_s

iTrader: (1)

Another vote for Mr 4D here

"Well I heard a noise, and picked up the torch to go and investigate....."

John

unclebuck

Another New Labour farce.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

I think its reasonably simple - batter first, then ask questions later

antera309

Agreed that the thieving scum should get what's coming to them, but a "free for all" like that would be too open to abuse - a murderer could drag his victim back to his own house, kill him, break a window and tell the Police that the victim was a burglar. It's a tricky one.

What is the best way of knocking someone out without risking killing them?