davyboy

I'll be downloading Paris Hilton, but some of you might be interested in this.....I can't believe he got jailed, for what essentailly was a tragic accident.

Tuesday 26 October, 10.35pm, BBC One
When Gary Hart drove his Land Rover onto the East Coast mainline near Selby in February 2001, he caused one of Britain's worst rail crashes - killing ten people, injuring scores more and causing £40 million worth of damage. Overnight, he was transformed into a hate figure by the tabloids. The victims and their relatives are still angry that he refuses to apologise or admit responsibility. Including interviews with others involved, ONE life delivers a raw, compelling and intimate portrait of Gary Hart as he speaks for the first time since the tragedy.

King RA

wasn't it proved he was speeding and driving carelessly?

Clarebabes

And he had been up all night talking to some bird he'd met on the internet.......

paulr

Sometimes i think davyboy just likes to post something contenscious..........sit back........and watch the reaction.

Not saying it cant be fun at times though......

unclebuck

I don't want to see a 'portrait' of him attempting to wriggle off the hook thanks very much. I'm surprised the creepy little fellow's not still inside tbo.

Clarebabes

I think you may be right Paul

davyboy

I am shocked you think I would be capable of such an action.

LG John

I think its a joke he went to jail for it. I feel for the families and friends of those involved but ultimately it was an unfortunate accident. The purpose of a 'jail sentance' is to keep people AWAY from society - as they are a menace - and to give them time to reflect on their crime and see that it just wasn't worth it. Where is the crime here? He fell asleep, something that everyone of us does once a day!! He did not mean to fall alseep but admittedly in this case being up late didn't help his attempts to prevent it. Its still not a crime, though! He was just vicimised because of the outcome. It would be like me dropping a banana skin on the lino with friends round and not picking it up straight away. Someone slips, cracks their head and dies - should I be jailed??

My mate fell asleep at 70mph on the motorway and twatted a few cones causing damage to his car. His crime is EXACTLY the same as Harts. The instant my mates eyes closed he had no more control over the outcome of things than Hart or anyone else that drifts off at the wheel. For that reason I can't see how in one case a man goes to jail cause he got unlucky and killed people and how in the other case nothing happens*. Luck should NOT feature in justice!!

And finally, where is the harm to society in him being a free man following what happened? Do you not think having those lives on his mind every day for the rest of his life is punishment enough?

* Leading on from that I feel this is a failing in the justice system in the UK in general. Take the following scenario: A group of neds batter some poor bloke and start stomping on his head. He dies so they go to jail for murder. The next week another group do the exact same thing under the exact same circumstances and the guy survives with some nasty head injuries. The neds get GBH, a fine and some community service! Er, sorry!!! But if you are jumping up and down on someones head or kicking them in the face the intent to kill is there! Whether the person dies or not is down to the luck of the blows and any of these little pr!cks that play football with other peoples faces should be going to jail for a long time irrespective of the outcome.

CraigH

But it's not is it? Being totally black and white, if you're too tired to drive, don't drive. If you fall asleep at the wheel and cause an accident, then regardless of it being tragic or not, you should be punished. It's not fair, they've made an example out of him but they had to do something. I'm surprised they haven't introduced a new term for this - but I guess it's covered under driving without due car and attention.

The rest of your post isn't really relevant imo because you can use that logic to speeding, drinking and driving, driving recklessly etc. There's rarely intent, it's normally always an accident, drivers don't mean to kill someone through bad driving, it's just some people get away with it, some don't.

It's one of those life sucks things - theres plenty more scumbags who deserve more than he got, but get away scot free unfortunately.

LG John

"Drinking and Driving" - can be measured by mgs booze per litre blood
"Speeding" - can be measured by mph/kph
"Tiredness" - how do we measure that?

What is too tired? When do you cross the line?? I didn't have a late night last night and had a full 7 hours in my pit before a training day at work today. Just 45mins ago I was driving home and could feel my eyes going in that low dusky light you get at this time of year. Was I too tired? Should I have checked into a B&B near work and not come home tonight!? What if I'd fallen asleep and cause a multi fatality pile up? What would happen to me? I have internet logs from last night to show when I logged off my system and witnesses as to when I went to bed and what time I got up. I would not have in any way been unreasonable yet I might have just nodded off without realising and BANG I'm a criminal.

If sleeping at the wheel is to be a crime surely we need a way to measure it.

wakeboardar

i seem to remember he was texting while driving if so so he deserves all he gets

LG John

That would be different but I can't imagine someone could be concentrating on texting and driving at the same time AND fallen asleep! The brain activity to txt and drive would surely prevent him sleeping until after the txting was done and he was back to the boring, quiet drive.

Redkop

I'm not

Jap2Scrap

If he really was texting whilst asleep I'll eat my hat

NotoriousREV

If a pilot stays awake all night ******** a stewardess and then flies a plane and falls asleep through exhaustion which results in a plane crash, most people would agree that the pilot had been criminally negligent. Same thing applies to driving, IMHO. As said above: if you're too tired to drive, you shouldn't be driving.

Falling asleep at the wheel is not an accident, it takes mental effort to ignore the warning signs and to keep driving. He must have known he was tired and drove anyway. That decision cost people's lives and he should have gone to jail.

LG John

So are you saying N'REV that if you were 20 mins from home (like I am coming home from work) you'd stop for a sleep rather than pushing on?? The problem is you can fall asleep even on a very short journey. There is a case to argue for lorry drivers where the log clearly shows they have gone X hours without a rest but what about the cases of people that nod off on a late night short drive? Maybe we should just ban driving between certain hours of the night

LG John

Oh and I can't see how ******** air stewardess's can ever be described as 'negligent'

NotoriousREV

I can honestly say that in my years driving, only once have I ever been so tired as to be nearly nodding off at the wheel (40 mins from home, just worked 36 hours straight) and I drove home. I've even driven while under the influence of other things when I shouldn't have. If by doing these things, I'd killed someone, then I'd fully expect to be jailed for it. Just because it's easy to do, doesn't make it right. What if you killed a child on a pedestrian crossing because you were retuning your stereo?

Small things that seem trivial can have huge effects at 70+ mph. We all forget it while driving because driving is an ordinary, everyday experience but a simple, tiny mistake can kill someone.

Spoon

Saxo Boy- If you logged off early last night, went to bed at a reasonable time and indeed had a decent amount of hours asleep and still fell asleep at the wheel then I'm sure the proof you have wouldn't point to driving tired.

It would be looked upon as a tragic accident.

However, in Gary Harts case they could prove his negligence, stupidity, whatever you want to call it. He was fully aware he would be driving having taken little or no sleep.

Guilty of an offence, not an accident.

NotoriousREV

Perhaps I was thinking "neglige" (one of them skimpy nightie things)

mart360

Lets be totally honest here...

how many of you have been returning home from a business trip, or a day out, and havent felt tired on the way back,

do you all religously stop and have a cup of coffee and a brisk walk??

lets face it you all know if you shut your eyes for a bit of zz you wont just have 15-20 mins, its a full 5-6 hrs.. then the 10pm arrival home is 3 in the morning, oh and you have to be at work at 8..

what would the outcome have been if they guy in question hadnt been up all night, wasnt texting at the wheel, but refreshed after a nights sleep??
and the trailer incident was due to some mechanical defect.

would he still be pilloried by the press?? more than likley.. because they needed somthing to pin the blame too.

look at the concorde crash,,, on initial apperance a bit of debris hit the plane and caused the crash..

or the german rail crash of ther high speed loco

under the investigation it was due to seemingly seperate factors that by some amazing timing all came together at one time..

result major accidents.

i dont see anyone blaming the pilot of the plane that dropped the debris that caused the concorde crash do you,

or the failed wheels on the german train that derailed??

gary hart wasnt exactly a saint, but as he say, he has to live with it for the rest of his life, and given the memory of the british tabloids .. i feel sorry for him..

contrast the asylum seeker who was speeding and killed the little boy nr brighton...

you would have thought that would have been a major prison sentance and a deportation..

He,s still in the country as far as i know..

I dont think that the Snet moraly righteous brigade should be kicking off on this one..

glass houses and throwing stones springs to mind.

Mart

Spoon

The above wins the October award for speaking complete and utter bollócks.

mart360

stick it...

Daryl

...and you're an expert on the subject!

Spoon

Not at all, I just never spout bóllocks.

Daryl

Glad to hear it

Just thought you were a bit harsh, that's all!

NotoriousREV

Falling asleep at the wheel is not the same as having debris falling from a plane. However, if that debris can be pinned on someone, they will be prosecuted. If you were the technician that was supposed to bolt that bit on and you did it wrong, expect jail time. If you were the supervisor that signed off that peice of work, expect jail time. If you were the manager that presided over the check process, expect jail time. Everything is logged and checked.

Most disasters can be attributed back to someone, somewhere making a bad decision. Gary Hart's had a more direct impact than most. We've all done it, most of us will do it again and there will be no consequences, but that doesn't mean that Gary Hart was innocent.

:eek:

So in your mind it's an offence not to rest properly before embarking on a journey is it?
Sorry but failing to take a nap or acting irresponsibly is not a crime in this country (yet).

David Lock

Just seen the programme and they seemed very light on exactly what actually happened just before he went down the embankment. He started to swerve with trailer etc but why was this? Seems quite possible/likely that he dozed off and as soon as he hit the edge this woke him up but by then it was too late. I didn't take to the guy but if it was a genuine (i.e. he didn't nod off) accident then his attitude was a bit more understandable. Even so I thought he came over badly.

BTW. ref the asylum seeker accident - the kid was playing chicken or pi$$ing about on a dangerous road (I know it) and should never have been near the place in the first place.

mart360

agreed but had the pratt in the car exercised dc&a prehaps he would be alive now.. and i agree its a well strange bit of road...

Mart