lokokkee

My friend runs a restaurant chain and a customer called up to claim that he had a case of food poisoning TWO days after a meal at one of the restaurant (an order of fried rice, which is cooked at the time of ordering, not prepared before hand) and wanted compensation for his hospital bills for 2 days' stay.
Questions:
1. Is it reasonable to have a delayed action of two days for the poisoning to take effect, and how can one pinpoint the source when the victim could have at least 3 or 4 other meals in the meantime?
2. The victim ate with her husband, who is unaffected. Unlike Western meals, Chinese food are usually shared around the table?
3. Should he settle just because the victim threatened to write to the press if her demands are not met? Such bad publicity is very bad for restaurants.
4. Can one take out public liability insurance to cover such incidents?

imlach

Any restaurant that doesn't take out public liability insurance is taking quite a risk - most caterers do insure themselves.

Mice_Elf

Food poisoning usually strikes very quickly.

Ask for proof that it was the meal she had there and not something she'd eaten after then.

lokokkee

Imlach, the restaurants have public liability, just haven't read the fine print whether customer food poisoning is covered in the standard policy.
Mice Elf, that's what I told my friend, ask her to prove it, but it may be bad from a PR point of view and against his 'the customer is always right' policy.

k.b

how would you go about getting food pisoning from fried rice?its just rice and egg and egg doesnt take too long to cook does it?my mum manages to give us fried rice and by the time it is ready the egg could have been cooked on its own.

boxst

Hello

The rice the water cooks in can be old, the rice itself contracts bacteria very quickly if left to stand for too long.

Steve.

john banks

Bacterial culture of a food sample is very difficult and the opportunity is probably now missed since the food will now be old/thrown away etc, so you can't culture leftovers 2 days later! So very difficult for the customer to prove.

However, the image of the restaurant is important as pointed out.

Gus M

If there had been several complaints there would have been cause for concern but one complaint is inconclusive.

workshy_fopp

Eating re-heated rice is one THE most common reasons for food poisoning. comes on quite quickly tho iirc. Seafood poisoning can take 2 days though. Had it twice from raw oysters. Very ill, it would kill the infirm. Still 2-times out of 30 ain't bad.
Mmmm Oysters.........

lokokkee

Boxst, rice is cooked first, and then fried again, so any bacteria would have been killed in the process, not too sure about toxins though. Rice is a fast moving item in Chinese restaurants and they are cooked fresh daily and maybe even a few times a day depending on the turnover and the size of the rice cooker, and it is always kept hot until served, so it is not a common cause of food poisoning.

Another time, a customer chipped her tooth biting on a piece of chicken bone and it was not a boneless chicken item on the menu. Since she produced the tooth chip on the spot, the restaurant paid up, though it could be a variant of the cockroach in the soup trick. I hate to imagine if she had choked on a piece of food instead. Whose fault?

106rallye

When I worked in a hotel, people used to sometimes get stomach bugs and start saying its food poisoning, they soon shut up when we told them to go and give a stool sample to the docs. Does your mate not freeze samples of food? I would expect a visit from some inspectors in the not too distant future if the people are not just out on the blag

I am no expert but I am sure that food poisoning would hit more than one person
as said before a accusations of food poisoning can damage a restaurants reputation so best to get it sorted either way

Good luck

Andy

imlach

The cause of food poisoning in reheated rice is down to a toxin which cannot be killed by normal reheating. Only bacteria are killed by heat.

The bacteria responsible is Baccillus Cereus. It is this bacteria which produces the toxin. So, reheating may kill the Baccillus Cereus but by that time the damage is done, as the toxin has been produced.....and you can't get rid of this toxin by reheating.

lokokkee

Just thought that even with insurance coverage, it is still a no-win situation cos the insurance company will also demand proof and do their best to avoid paying up, and the customer will start bad-mouthing in the press if given the runaround.

I am a very fussy eater myself, no raw food e.g. oysters, shashimi, sushi and vegetables/salad for me in restaurants, especially in hot climates. Food poisoning is so common that health inspectors would not show up unless it is infections like cholera or mass poisoning. There is always the possibility of a stray fly being the culprit, and culturing of food samples would be inconclusive in this case.

Cider boy

Agree with all Imlach has said.

Rice is the most common cause of food poisoning in Eastern-style restaurants, people just have no idea how dangerous it can be!!

Although this case it seems the restaurant probably are not to blame, the fact he is the only person and reported it after 2 days - this type of food poisoning tends to be fast acting. That's why after feeling really rough after a night out on the beer and a curry on the way home is not always too much beer to blame, it's highly likely to be from the rice!!!

Matt

ChrisB

Just to echo the rice comments...

I used to pre-cook rice to put in fried rice. Then cook it through again whilst making the fried rice and what I didn't eat I'd freeze to re-heat.

I got in trouble with my girlfriend who's a dietician (so has spent years studying food) as she told me you should only re-heat rice once after cooking.

Smiler

Suggest you check your facts. Rice is a common source of food poisoning.

However, if they were in hospital you would be reported to enviromental health and they will call anyway.

Don't pay, and the Press won't do anything neither unless the case was proven

Buckrogers

My own experince of complaning.

Out with group of friends, 12 or so. Ordered steak but without the cheese topping. Friend had the same. Meal was served, clearly the cheese had been removed at last minute and there was still some cheese on my steak.

My meal and friend's who also ordered steak, was best described as luke warm. We both sent them back. I also added that I had ask specifically for no cheese with mine, the waitress said sorry and she would get a fresh one. Both meals came back at the same time, my steak had the corners missing (where cheese had been).

I had the added bonus of 3 hairs added to my meal. My friend had what was clearly an eyelash on his meal. Both complained. By this time both not hungry anymore, most of our friends had finished their meals.

We were both "interviewed" just afterwards by the manageress, who was very appologelic and said we would not be charge for the two meals. (no ****).

The money is not the point. My evening has been ruined and I am still hungry.

Recevied a letter from their head office. All that was offered was an apology. Nothing to entice me into going back, consequently, I will never go back.
If I am ever invited to go there with friends I won't and I will tell them why I will not go there.

Word of mouth is a lot in the restaurant game. If the chef knows that his food is good this one "fruit" who appears to be trying it on will not damage the reputation as others will say I have always had a good meal there.

If anything is offered to this person give her a free meal otherwise, whistle on....

fast bloke

Don't worry about bad press - mention the words sander and libel in all communications - sounds like BS to me. Have had food poisining once and it kicked it about 3-4 hours after the meal. Everyone who had chicken in the hotel ended up in hospital. Hotel gave us each a free meal, but enviromental health couldn't prove anything

ajm

The onset of symptoms occurring 2 days later sounds a bit iffy to me. A quick google on B. Cereus reveals:

If it was the rice then the symptoms should have dispersed within 24 hours because they are due to an emetic toxin rather than infection per se, so 2 days in hospital seems a bit excessive too!

I think they are mistaken about the source of the illness, or they are partaking in an ill-researched scam.

lokokkee

Thanks for all the replies folks, so it appears correct to deny liability until proven otherwise, given the facts of the case. This is also the first time that I read rice is such a potentially dangerous food after surviving on it all these years as the main source of carbohydrate.

Diesel

What is it with rice particularly that causes this bacteria effect? Surely this bacteria could 'land' on any type of food left out warm?

D
(a concerned frequent rice re-heater - well there's no point cooking rice just for one day when I can save the time and hassle in rinsing/cooking the next day)

ajm

It can probably live in all sorts of food, but it is the high starch content in rice that the bacteria converts to the toxin.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.... if you havn't made yourself ill so far then there is no reason why you should now! (or maybe you have built up a tolerance against the toxin due to your skanky food hygene practices! )

Alas

Agree - I'm a hotel manager and if they were hospitalised through food poisoning their doctor would by law have to inform the EHO of the suspected source and they would have visited straight away. People really grab my buns as they eat out and immediately blame a dose of the sh%ts on that meal. They forget that the night before they went to the toilet and did'nt wash their hands, they ate the bit of bacon that was left over from breakfast that was sitting out, they reheated something they had the night before etc etc etc
If your m8 is too blame then he would have had a damn sight more than one person probably complaining, especially as the item is a common one. If he's worried inform the EHO himself and get them to check his procedures, then inform the customer that is what he's doing. Press will not be interested.
Alas

Brendan Hughes

Say you don't consider the restaurant to blame but in the interests of good relations you offer them a free meal for two (drinks not included). Honestly, how much profit will that lose you compared to them going around moaning? And you show some vague goodwill.

OllyK

The key thing with rice is that once it is cooked, cool it and get it in the fridge asap so that any bacteria that wasn't killed doesn't get a chance to start producing the toxins.

OllyK

So they can go and tell their mates what an easy touch the place is - go and have a meal and then complain of food poisoning with no evidence and get another free meal.

If they can show it was down to the meal they ate at the restaurant then fine, otherwise I'd say, do your worst and be prepared to take legal action against them if they try and publish unsubstantiated claims.

lokokkee

The problem with the hospital bill is that it is enough to buy a banquet for 10 persons, not just an outpatient treatment . As a normal procedure, any customer who complained, usually about poor service, food not what they expected etc, are given a free meal on the house as a goodwill gesture. But how do you offer a customer who complained of food poisoning another meal at the restaurant?
What I don't understand about rice with its high carbo content being a rich source of food for bacteria is that bread would also be in the same position, yet I eat 1 or 2 day-old bread regularly (before the expiry date) with no effect.
I think most people develop some sort of resistance to food borne bacteria and toxin after a while, and it is only travellers who fall prey to the traveller-stomach symptom when they eat at foreign places for the first time. You won't believe the amount of flies around street food vendors in the region, yet locals are hardly affected, unless it is a cholera, salmonella or E.coli outbreak due to contaminated water or carrier, then only the health authorities act. Rats or cockroaches would not attract any action as they are part and parcel of the urban eco system.

Cider boy

It's because rice can contain spores of Bacillus cereus, this is what causes the problem. As far as I know bread does not contain this, hence why you can eat it after a couple of days!

Matt

lokokkee

ciderboy, is there any truth in peanuts being a potential store for aflavotoxin then, a more potent poison than that in rice, as this is usually served as tidbits in Chinese restaurants?