brybusa

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing%20Standard


the thin end of the wedge..........

kimera9988

no chance of that getting through.

95% of all cars manufactured would no longer be bought by joe public if this scheme went nationwide. The car bosses wouldnt stand for it.

besides their will a chip for it within 36 hours.

MattW

Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights

Dracoro

Vote Norris then. Or any other politician who's against this sort of cr4p.

I thought the average speed (in central london) was 11mph. Is that now too high a figure? What an advanced capital we live in

If it 'works' (the definition of which will be set by ken so that it's met whatever happens ) then it will roll on to other cities, then towns etc.

Anyway I thought most collisions in cities happened UNDER the speed limit so not sure what the point of this is anyway.

Dracoro

p.s. be interested to see how they'll fit this 'device' to my Westfield Anyone any suggestions?

Neil Smalley

Easy, ban westfields from london

hedgehog

These are actually rather more complex and sinister than just speed limiters and it has been discussed on here in some detail on previous occasions:

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=354259

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=348303

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=343585

The government have already held meetings with many car makers and, in truth, many more modern cars already have the systems in place to support this "Intelligent Speed Adapation" system. I don't know about a Westfield but am aware that the technical requirements insist that it will work on cars, HGVs and motorcycles. It is also likely to be linked, in some manner, to road charging and probably also to number plate tags.

There is a lot of political pressure from the "green" and PC groups for this and the government seem very keen on it, they seem deeply concerned that you can drive around in a car and they can't, currently, monitor your every movement. I am sure, therefore, that ways will be found to extend this to almost every vehicle and that it will be enforced. Just like the speed camera that is the pilot for ISA the enforcement is likely to be summary, automated and aimed at the citizen with an investment in society. I don't imagine it will bother the real criminals much.

This will also be extended countrywide so some green nutter will control how quickly you can go around every corner in the UK and the intention is that the system will slow your car for "dangerous" areas. It is also possible that before this system becomes law for all vehicles insurance companies will demand that it is fitted to higher performance vehicles before insurance will be issued.

Remember HGVs will be limited by this device to 40mph on single carriageways so on many NSL roads the speed limit is about to, effectively, become 40mph. The plan in London seems to be to us a similar tactic of fittment to key vehicles to slow everyone else to a crawl and greatly increase the number of overtaking accidents.

That's a summary, you can read the links above and the primary material by running "intelligent speed adaptation" through google. Once you see the details you will realise that things are very bad indeed.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Guys, don't bother moaning about it here. Write to your MP, or at least your newspaper, instead. It's not hard and it doesn't take long.

I wrote to mine on this very subject a few weeks ago and received a comprehensive reply including an invitation for me to respond - an invitation I plan to take up this weekend.

If, as we are often told, speed is a contributory factor in up to 30% of accidents, ask why the main thrust of road safety policy isn't in tacking the 70% or more where speed is not even a contributory factor. Ask why most accidents happen at junctions where speeds are lowest, and why our fastest roads - motorways - are also the safest.

Write in to the people making the decisions - don't just waste your time preaching to the converted. Scoobynet readers aren't the audience you want to reach.

hedgehog

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention, the "maps" of speed limits are due to be completed by September next year. That should give some food for thought to anyone who suspects that it will be years before this comes to their car. If you are driving a performance car you have probably 2 more insurance renewals before you have to fit this system to your car.

Another point that is slightly inaccurate in the report is the "control of the throttle response" concept that this will just reduce your ability to accelerate. The system that is being designed for the UK will actively apply the brakes as well.

unclebuck

Always amuses me when people bury their heads in the sand and say "it'll never happen."

It is happening! All those cheap GPS navigation devices are proof that the technology is all but in place already.

UB

Sprint Chief

Hmm I think I can see a new product line here.

Cheap local (say.. car sized bubble?) GPS jammer anyone?

Easy enough to make!

fast bloke

stivk you gps monitoring device to some old granda down the road that never drives over 20 and blast away until your heart is content

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Cool I have a foreign car I cancome to your country a zoom upthe motorway as you lot will al be going to slow to get in my way, and the police won't catch me either

Come on British government keep up the good work

Poor Guy

hey couldnt put anything like that on my westy/gt6/spit. its hard enough wiring in a interior light?!

Tiggs

everyone is glass is half empty!

think of the good stuff....

no more worrying about watching your speedo which you always moan about

nice comfy cars as makers focus on interior comfort instead of power and speed

and cheaper trackdays as more ppl take it up as a hooby and prices drop

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Erm... you can already buy a nice comfy, slow car for the price of a scooby - it's a trade-off you make yourself when you buy the car.

As for track days getting cheaper, ever heard of supply & demand? How many more tracks do you think are going to be built?

Tiggs

but now you will get a car as comfy as a seven seriers for the cost of fiesta as all the RandD will go into instead of the engine

paulr

oil will run out before it happens anyway.

wacky.banana

It will be interesting to see how the legal implications of this are got round. Current driving laws work on the premise that the driver is fully in control of his vehicle at all times and therefore culpable for any acts proven to be against the law (provided the evidence and proof are there, of course). Fit a variable limiter into a car and that changes the equation/dynamics dramatically.

Yes I know that HGV's etc are already electronically limited to 56mph; however we are talking about variable limiters here where the driver may have decided on a course of action to allow him to proceed safely, not expecting a variable limiter to apply the brakes on him during, say, a safe overtaking manouvre!

If you look at how badly our roads are signposted today, with regards to what the speed limits are (the cynic in me says that's deliberate, to raise speeding revenues) then you begin to get my drift. There's a stretch of road into Manchester, for example, that eventually goes past the Man United Football ground, which has a shedload of speed cameras on it but with no way of you telling, if you are not from the area, whether the limit is 30, 40, or 50mph because there's no bleedin signs up!

Food for thought.

WB

TopBanana

Hey this fruit bowl aint big enough for the both of us mister

IPKIS

If this system is electronic how do they propose fitting it to an older vehicle with no ecu or electronic ignition?????

wacky.banana

LOL, I have been on here for quite a while mate. I just don't post that often.

Bloody apples will be trying to get into the act soon.

hedgehog

The honest answer is that i'm not sure about older cars and haven't found a simple answer. It is possible that they will be fitted with a device that will log speed against position and you will be "charged" for any excess speed, basically an in car speed monitoring device that reports back. There is already a precedent for similar devices to monitor the driving of young drivers in Ireland. The data is downloaded through a computer. However, with the proposals for number plate tags running in parallel with this it is possible that your GPS data might be downloaded by some sort of induction system on the roadway.

Either way I think that some form of this system can be implemented for every type of vehicle, though as you say, IPKIS, on older vehicles it might not actually control the throttle and brake. I think once it starts to arrive we will be surprised at just how many cars, even slightly older ones, are already "wired" for it.

Bloody Apples

You called!


Anyway, what I suspect will happen is that accidents will go up. People will concentrate less on their driving because their speed is controlled. It won't prevent them from crashing into something/someone because they aren't paying attention though.

Jap2Scrap

Hang on, hang on....

Let's take this one stage further. If the GPS can identify when you're at a bend/hazard and can apply the brakes, why not turn the wheels as well? Also, if everybody's position is tracked, why not use that data to keep safe distances between moving cars, overtaking parked cars, pulling out of junctions safely, etc.

That would take the accident rate down to zero overnight as the GPS data transmits even faster than a Scooby, even through the twisties.

Of course, the odd tunnel and that might become slightly hazardous.

Anyway, my point is, leave the driving to the satellites and we're free to watch dvd's, use our mobiles and eat kit-kats all day long.

Simple.

hedgehog

The accuracy of GPS is not sufficient to allow full car control. It is accurate enough to ensure that you slow down well before any "dangerous" area or speed limit as a few yards either way hardly matters, you just set the braking point 30 yards before the speed limit, for example, and you can be sure the car will have slowed by the time it reaches the sign even allowing for a bit of give and take in the GPS. However, a few yards either way could have you driving on the wrong side of the road if the GPS was doing the steering.

Dracoro

In a way, I'd like a car that did EVERYTHING and you just sit in the back playing video games, watching a film, surfing the net etc. Be brill.

Obviously still want to go tearing about in my westie.

I can see the technology being used on the motorways but off the beaten track go into 'manual' mode.

Basically either the technology handles EVERYTHING or the driver does. No half measures as it would be a dangerous combination.

Jap2Scrap

Shame, cos I was only half-joking.

What about shielding your GPS in lead and making a few free journeys? Can GPS transmissions penetrate lead?

NotoriousREV

Do the people who were in favour of banning fox hunting now begin to realise what is happening in this country? The Government will probably force this legislation through using the Parliament Act as well.

Not on my car, not ever.

unclebuck

Quite right IMHO. And, when angry protests are made outside Parliment by drivers of performance cars, such as Subarus and Westfields, they too will be beaten by lines of police kitted out with full kevlar body armour.

UB