unclebuck

I don’t know if this has already been done to death on here but I don’t remember any previous threads on the subject.

Well, this time it looks as though the game is finally up for the pro-hunt lobby. Seven years ago when New Labour came to power I would have probably supported getting rid of hunting with dogs as an outdated anachronistic toffs pass-time.

Now I can see what it’s really about… Of course, it not Politically Correct to hunt foxes with dogs, and what do we do with all such non-Politically Correct activities? Yes, we *ban*them of course. We don’t care about wiping out generations of tradition, or the destruction of a centuries old way of life that will affect thousands of country dwellers.

This is a purely political decision and is being done for all the wrong reasons. These people don’t care about the well being of foxes, it’s just a spiteful attack on the indigenous people and traditions of this country by a group of here today, gone tomorrow political minnows – the Labour Back Benchers. If this is New Labour democracy in action then frankly I have to say, it stinks.

Or have I missed something?

UB

MattW

I don't hunt, never have, probably never will, but I don't want to see it banned.

davyboy

Can't see what the problem is.

A few foxes get killed, big deal!

A lot of people enjoy it, and it keeps people employed!

......aren't there more important issues to worry about than a few bloody animals?

Child cruelty, drugs, crime, rape etc..........what do we spend loads of money on......saving a few virmin!

Andrew Dixon

This is the 2nd UB post in 2 days that I've broadly agreed with ... what's happening to me?!?

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

I don't care either way.... doesn't effect me in the slightest. boring subject IMHO

darts_aint_sport

I'm with you UB. I think most of the people who want a ban have no clue about the way of life outside of the M25.

Fosters

Foxes are vermin and need to be controlled. that's one of the reasons why farmers and game keepers have shot guns. bang, dead, no problem anymore.

Trapping them and then releasing them only to be chased down by hounds for 10 miles is cruel and pointless.

as to the killing off of a tradition, purleeze! i think we can live without it - hunting's not a small economy that will leave people without a living.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Considering that some farmers can't distinguish between a human and a fox, I'd say leave it to the dogs

David Lock

Why is it that drag hunting is dismissed so readily? I suspect that the thrill of the kill is missing so the hunt loses its appeal??

BTW the fox hunting thing may not be all over as the government's proposal to not have the ban for two years is a separate part of the bill and could be opposed by House of Lords. If that happened ban would have to be in place within 3 months i.e. just before an election which is the last thing Tony wants... DL

Frosty The Snowman

What most people don't realise is that foxes are treated as pests which is why they are hunted, they are not cute fluffy bundles of fur to farmers. Even if the bill goes through today foxes will still be killed, perhaps near to extinction until they are protected I would guess.

I don't like any animal suffering needlessly, I'm not a veggie by the way, but I don't really know what the facts are with fox hunting, if the fox does suffer much when caught, because both sides will obviously skew the facts to suit their argument.


Mark

Silvafox

iTrader: (1)

What a stupid statement. I was brought up in the Vale of Belvoir Leicestershire in village called Bottesord. My ex girlfried used to live nearby where they kept the dogs for the hunt for Belvoir Castle and the horses. I've witnessed first hand a Lakeland Terrier rip to shreds a fox. Its f'in cruel and should be banned once and for all. All this tradition crap in the name of chasing a fox only to watch it be ripped to bits by a hound. Many people from where I com form who are surrounded by hunting, tradition, village life etc... would agree with me too. The fox used to be vermin years ago but due to hunting and lack of food for them in the natural habitat they have moved closer to towns as most people can verify as they're everywhere in city centres round here. So why bother with all the cruelty side when they jsut are NOT a problem any more. And yes I do know several farmers who don't have any problems at all with them.

Ban it once and for all.

Reffro

I am saddened that hunting with dogs is going to be banned, well pissed off more like. Its a fact that the debate is being forced through by MPS who have no understanding of rural life, or respect of the rural communities points of view. The vast majority of those MPs voting for the ban are from town/city constituencies, and have jumped on the bandwagon, to satisfy the PC supposed moral argument that hunting with dogs is abhorent.

If you remove hunting with dogs, foxes & deer are going to be subject to killing via methods which do not guarantee a swift death. There are countless stories of deer for example that have been shot, but not killed that have lingering deaths. I saw one piece on TV where the deer was shot, but the shot only managed to break the animals jaw, which then lived in pain for days before dying of dehydration, as it was unable to drink or eat.

A fox or deer when hunted, does not always get caught. For those that are caught, you can guarantee a swift death. For those that aren't caught, they keep intact an inate fear of humans/dogs which prevents them becoming greater threats. The only time I have seen a fox recently has been driving through towns at night, it won't be long before urban populations of foxes start to cause problems. Once they start eating Timmy's rabbits or Katie's guniea pigs there will be shouts of what can we do. You can't shoot or poison an urban fox population.

Control of the rural fox population is necessary, but if the population were to rise as it surely would should hunting with dogs banned, then look out for more foxes on the margins of towns migrating in to urban areas in search of an easy meal.

r32

The hunt catches very few, its more the good time they have .....
But all those horses and dogs being put down, and the loss of jobs, difficult.....

unclebuck

Nice chap.....

Diablo

Oh FFs, when will the pro hunt lobbyists stop wittering on about control of vermin

Its an established fact that fox hunting with dogs is not the most efficient way to keep the numbers down.

And Unclebuck, this subject has been done to death (no pun intended) on Scoobynet over the years

unclebuck

Interesting that a BBC poll (from 4105 votes cast) has it at exactly 50/50 for and against.

Diablo

No one has ever asked me though...

Or anyone I know, work with of have probably ever met.

Reffro

I said the death was swift. The chase isn't necessarily quick but the longer the chase progresses the more chance the fox has to escape. Hunting also helps with nature's one big rule, survival of the fittest. The population of foxes will have removed the less fit/able foxes with the others escaping. Shooting is not the best method of control, and trapping/poisoning are illegal.

Brendan Hughes

Can't stand people who go on about tradition. My answer is always "Slavery was once a tradition".

Bullfighting is also a proud Spanish tradition. I wonder if the pro-hunt lobby defend that, too?

Urban pests - a very valid point, you can't shoot them. But irrelevant here, as you won't have twenty horses clattering through Brum city centre, either.

Foxes ARE pests, I know they'll rip 20 chickens to bits just to get one. I FULLY agree they need to be culled. But I don't see the point in hunting them with dogs.

Iwan

I worked on a farm for a couple of years (at weekends) when i was at school. In that time i went along to help the farmer at several fox hunts, and also went 'beagling' (hunting for hares with beagles) a few times.

Now i'm not against the hunting/killing of vermin at all, indeed i'm a shotgun owner and can see the need for it.

But in my experience the whole foxhunting/beagling is nothing to do with controlling numbers of foxes/hares, and everything to do with a bunch of snobby toffs who'd still be going to cockfights or dogfights if they weren't already banned.

On many occasions i watched the huntsmen/women cheering and laughing as an exhausted fox or hare was torn to pieces by the hounds. It's quite something to see a mammal torn limb from limb when you're close enought to look it in the eye.

At one hunt i was 'fortunate' enough to attend, a woman fell from a horse at a fence and both her and the horse were injured. My comment of "oh well i guess that's 1 - nil to the fox then" didn't go down well, these people are not what i'd call sporting.

Personally i'll be glad to see it banned. Again, i've got no problem whatsoever with the humane controlling of vermin. Once it's banned i'll probably re-join BASC. I let my susbcription lapse the last few years due to their policy of rolling all field 'sports' into one big argument, i was happy to pay for being in the shooting organisation but not of my money went to helping the pro-hunting lobby.

Iwan

Reffro

I'll support bull fighting if done fairly. But it rarely is nowadays, horns being shaved immediately before the fight etc etc, so I'm less likely to offer my support. I always enjoy the prospect of the bull winning, very rarely does I'll admit, but odd gored matador makes me smile when I read about it.

SJ_Skyline

IMHO this has SFA to do with hunting with dogs.

Its about using the Parliment act to force a bill through despite it being sent back from the Lords several times.

I thought the purpose of government was to govern, not to rule.... maybe someone should explain this to Tony and his cronies?

For the record I don't agree with hunting with dogs but neither do I agree with banning it for the reasons that have been given or the method that is being taken.

Graz

Hmmm I think this threads going to go on for a while!

Lets get some fact straight here first.

1. Fox hunting does not control the rural fox population, they kill so few of them it's insignificant. They are kept under control by farmers with shotguns. If hunting is banned this doesn't stop the farmers from shooting them so the population will still be controlled.

2. Foxes are not going to become extinict. They could wipe out the entire population in the countryside but the are thousands of them living in urban areas. There not under threat. They are very adaptable animals and are equally happy living in towns and eating what they can find in peoples dustbins as they would be living in the countryside eating rabbits etc.

Now I do tend to agree that fox hunting is cruel, but that's the nature of the human race I'm afraid. If they ban fox hunting what's next? The extremist types will have to find something else to protest about, and personally as someone who does a bit of fishing on odd occasions I could see that being targeted next. Now this gets tricky, you could argue that fishing is equally a cruel as fox hunting, problem is it's a very popular and accessable hobby. Now by banning fox hunting the government isn't exactly going to lose many votes, I suspect those who take part in it don't vote labour anyway Fishing on the other hand, if that were banned they would lose millions of votes. So banning fishing is never going to happen then.

So IMHO they should leave it alone, yes it's cruel, but it's a minority sport, they don't kill that many foxes, and it's part of this countries heritage.

Nature is cruel anyway, watch a few nature programs, the killing is often far from humane.

Chrisgr31

So if this is all about animal cruelty perhaps we should ban cats. After all they chase play with other animals before killing them!

This is political and designed to get votes, and the cynical aim can be seen bu the delay in implementation of 2 years.

This government is just after publicity for itself, and everything it does is on that basis. This is all to do with media manipulation and nothing else.

Clarebabes

I want it banned.