anyone ever involved in a crash, that had fatalaties?
02 August 2004, 12:52 AM
#1
anyone ever involved in a crash, that had fatalaties?
long story short.
One of my best mates was involved in a one on one crash with a motorcycle today.
he was turning into a derbyshire attraction he indicated and looked and then manouvered, full lock middle of the road, thwack. bike hits the car, on the side, approx 100 mph.
it spun the car it hit that hard.
he sat with the bloke, whilst waiting for emergency services.
they turned him over whilst he was there, and what he described to me, is un repeatable.
he died later in hospital.
mate has just been told, and he is in a mess!!!
what can we expect? what can i do as a good friend? want to be there for him, and want to make sure he comes out of this at the other side.
any help is appreciated, please no **** taking.
james
One of my best mates was involved in a one on one crash with a motorcycle today.
he was turning into a derbyshire attraction he indicated and looked and then manouvered, full lock middle of the road, thwack. bike hits the car, on the side, approx 100 mph.
it spun the car it hit that hard.
he sat with the bloke, whilst waiting for emergency services.
they turned him over whilst he was there, and what he described to me, is un repeatable.
he died later in hospital.
mate has just been told, and he is in a mess!!!
what can we expect? what can i do as a good friend? want to be there for him, and want to make sure he comes out of this at the other side.
any help is appreciated, please no **** taking.
james
02 August 2004, 01:36 AM
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Dunno what to say really, except I hope your friend is ok and that unfortunatly things do happen and as such he was just "the one" so to speak. I once had an RTA with a cyclist and the feeling when you think "it" has happened is undescribable.
Best wishes to him and all involved.
Best wishes to him and all involved.
02 August 2004, 01:45 AM
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Thing is it will probabily take a few days to sink in. If I were you, and Im just saying IF I would just pop round and check he is ok and let him know if he needs a chat you are there and he only has to pick up the phone. That way, youre not seen as poking your nose in and when he wants to talk, he knows he can talk to you!
02 August 2004, 01:58 AM
#5
said that already mate, just want to make sure hes not just saying hes ok, and then have him bottle it up and then it come to a head, without anyone knowing?
his parents are really good, and they are with him.
so he does have people around him, i just think you can say thing to mates better than family sometimes if you know what i meen?
his parents are really good, and they are with him.
so he does have people around him, i just think you can say thing to mates better than family sometimes if you know what i meen?
02 August 2004, 01:58 AM
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My heart goes out to you and your mate.
In circumstances like this I think it is important to make sure you are available for your mate to talk to. In my personal experience of dealing with people who have had any involvement with sudden death is that people do not approach for fear of saying the wrong thing or upsetting them. A long time after the event they (like your mate )will have said it would have been nice just to have someone listen to them. Think of him needing you to talk to and sound off his feelings and anxieties about this. Sometimes just listening and not offering advice is enough.
The formalites of any investigation I cant help on but I can tell you he will need someone to LISTEN to him, not to advise or wonder what if, he will have plenty of that running around in his mind already.
In circumstances like this I think it is important to make sure you are available for your mate to talk to. In my personal experience of dealing with people who have had any involvement with sudden death is that people do not approach for fear of saying the wrong thing or upsetting them. A long time after the event they (like your mate )will have said it would have been nice just to have someone listen to them. Think of him needing you to talk to and sound off his feelings and anxieties about this. Sometimes just listening and not offering advice is enough.
The formalites of any investigation I cant help on but I can tell you he will need someone to LISTEN to him, not to advise or wonder what if, he will have plenty of that running around in his mind already.
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02 August 2004, 09:22 AM
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j4mou,
Back in 1996 I myself was very nearly killed by a drunk driver who hit me head on at over 100mph, as you might expect I was a mess, but the worst thing of all I didn't at the time know how many cars were invovled, after 3 days I heard that someone had died in the crash and I just fell apart with guilt even though I was totally blameless for the accident, thankfully that was not the case, just be their for him mate, the worst part for me was the noise of the impact, I can't expalin it mate but even today it makes my stomach churn, give him time a lot of time, I feel for you and your friend, it's times like this you find out who your real friends are.
All the best
Colin
Back in 1996 I myself was very nearly killed by a drunk driver who hit me head on at over 100mph, as you might expect I was a mess, but the worst thing of all I didn't at the time know how many cars were invovled, after 3 days I heard that someone had died in the crash and I just fell apart with guilt even though I was totally blameless for the accident, thankfully that was not the case, just be their for him mate, the worst part for me was the noise of the impact, I can't expalin it mate but even today it makes my stomach churn, give him time a lot of time, I feel for you and your friend, it's times like this you find out who your real friends are.
All the best
Colin
02 August 2004, 09:43 AM
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Something he'll have to deal with this week. There will be a funeral, its a once only chance, he may wish to go and will need a lot of support. Just to pay respects and ultimately for the event to sink in.
I don't know what I'd do given the situation, depends on how the other family feel.
I don't know what I'd do given the situation, depends on how the other family feel.
02 August 2004, 10:08 AM
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not a very cheerful thread for Monday .....
... not too sure about the idea of going to the funeral; might give some sense of closure, but don't know how it would be viewed by the deceased's family.
... have you thought about scouring the internet or looking in the local library for some info on grief counselling?
... in a similar situation when I lost someone close very suddenly I was just grateful for non-critical, non-judgmental human company.
Things aren't normal, he knows they aren't, you know they aren't so just chill out with him - quiet walks, some time down the pub, whatever .....
It's being there that counts
... not too sure about the idea of going to the funeral; might give some sense of closure, but don't know how it would be viewed by the deceased's family.
... have you thought about scouring the internet or looking in the local library for some info on grief counselling?
... in a similar situation when I lost someone close very suddenly I was just grateful for non-critical, non-judgmental human company.
Things aren't normal, he knows they aren't, you know they aren't so just chill out with him - quiet walks, some time down the pub, whatever .....
It's being there that counts
02 August 2004, 10:14 AM
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Can't really offer any specific advice other than to let him deal with it at his own pace, and to be there when he wants to talk. Forcing the issue or offereing advice he doesn't want won't help, and the chances are he'll be so cut up at the moment he won't be receptive to what you have to say.
Let him know you are there when he wants someone to talk to, and let hime take the lead.
Personally, I'd try find a reason to pop around without making it look as if I was checking on him "to see if you're alright". Returing some DVD's/CDs or something for example, it sounds "corney" but it can become stressful when people keep asking "how you are" and you know thats the reason they've called.
best wishes, Gareth
Let him know you are there when he wants someone to talk to, and let hime take the lead.
Personally, I'd try find a reason to pop around without making it look as if I was checking on him "to see if you're alright". Returing some DVD's/CDs or something for example, it sounds "corney" but it can become stressful when people keep asking "how you are" and you know thats the reason they've called.
best wishes, Gareth
02 August 2004, 10:42 AM
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Easy to understand how bad he feels. He needs all your support of course and the best thing is to be around and ready to listen if he wants to talk. Call in to see him and let him bring it up if he wants. No reason not to ask how he is though.
Les
Les
02 August 2004, 11:36 AM
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Jamo,
My sister in law was killed in an RTA a few months ago. Looking at it from the 'other' side, I'd say that attending the funeral would be a Bad Thing - it's a very emotional event and people aren't logical or rational at times like that. But letting it be known that your mate is thinking of/considering/would like to attend is good - it lets people see that he cares and lets the family begin to understand that the accident wasn't just down to some unfeeling knobber.
But there are some things you/he need to understand. In a fatal there is, as far as I understand, always a prosecution. or at least there will be moves towards one. I wasn't there and I didn't see what happened, nor am I attempting to apportion blame, but The System says that Someone Must be Nicked and so the process will start. Your mate needs to understand that it does not necessarily mean it was his fault. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't - the investigation should clear that up and if he listens to what is siad (and not said) and keeps remembering that the police are doing their jobs and will be as fair as possible then he should be able to use this to ease his conscience. Because that will be troubling him a lot. Assuming, of course, that they decide not to prosecute for death by dangerous - that would generally suggest that they consider he was to blame and was criminally negligent...
Whatever, chin up and feel free to get in touch offlist if you want to talk privately.
S(imon)B
My sister in law was killed in an RTA a few months ago. Looking at it from the 'other' side, I'd say that attending the funeral would be a Bad Thing - it's a very emotional event and people aren't logical or rational at times like that. But letting it be known that your mate is thinking of/considering/would like to attend is good - it lets people see that he cares and lets the family begin to understand that the accident wasn't just down to some unfeeling knobber.
But there are some things you/he need to understand. In a fatal there is, as far as I understand, always a prosecution. or at least there will be moves towards one. I wasn't there and I didn't see what happened, nor am I attempting to apportion blame, but The System says that Someone Must be Nicked and so the process will start. Your mate needs to understand that it does not necessarily mean it was his fault. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't - the investigation should clear that up and if he listens to what is siad (and not said) and keeps remembering that the police are doing their jobs and will be as fair as possible then he should be able to use this to ease his conscience. Because that will be troubling him a lot. Assuming, of course, that they decide not to prosecute for death by dangerous - that would generally suggest that they consider he was to blame and was criminally negligent...
Whatever, chin up and feel free to get in touch offlist if you want to talk privately.
S(imon)B
02 August 2004, 12:26 PM
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Spooky
I have just come home for an hour to pay my respects to a friend whose funeral is today. She passed on in a RTA with a Bus near Maidstone last week aith a friend and her daughter.
Makes you think, take care out there.
J
I have just come home for an hour to pay my respects to a friend whose funeral is today. She passed on in a RTA with a Bus near Maidstone last week aith a friend and her daughter.
Makes you think, take care out there.
J
02 August 2004, 04:53 PM
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Had something very similar about 15 years ago, my uncle was driving and turned right across traffic near Butlins in Skegness.
None of us saw the motorcycle coming the other way, the police estimated his speed at 90-110mph at impact on a road which is a 40mph limit. Other car drivers and pedestrians had seen the bike rider overtaking rows of cars at very high speed with his body flat to the tank. My uncles Sierra had the bikes front end taking up half the back seat and the riders helmet shape was clearly visible in the side of the roof.
The only thing you can do is be there for him.
There will be a few things that will happen. The riders family may contact him either to talk to him or through legal channels to start a civil action, although the police may not prosecute anyone a civil case can still be brought by the riders family who will want someone to blame. I would say going to the funeral is definately out unless he is invited by the family.
There will also be an inquest which he will attend and will have to face the family of the rider. How this goes will depend on the attitude of the bikers family.
We had nasty legal letters from the family of the rider who died for quite a while after the accident. By the time the inquest came round and the family had taken things in and read the witness and police statements they had accepted that their Son had been riding dangerously. They even told my uncle not to blame himself after the inquest.
My uncle's biggest step was driving again, the sooner your friend drives again the better.
Lee
None of us saw the motorcycle coming the other way, the police estimated his speed at 90-110mph at impact on a road which is a 40mph limit. Other car drivers and pedestrians had seen the bike rider overtaking rows of cars at very high speed with his body flat to the tank. My uncles Sierra had the bikes front end taking up half the back seat and the riders helmet shape was clearly visible in the side of the roof.
The only thing you can do is be there for him.
There will be a few things that will happen. The riders family may contact him either to talk to him or through legal channels to start a civil action, although the police may not prosecute anyone a civil case can still be brought by the riders family who will want someone to blame. I would say going to the funeral is definately out unless he is invited by the family.
There will also be an inquest which he will attend and will have to face the family of the rider. How this goes will depend on the attitude of the bikers family.
We had nasty legal letters from the family of the rider who died for quite a while after the accident. By the time the inquest came round and the family had taken things in and read the witness and police statements they had accepted that their Son had been riding dangerously. They even told my uncle not to blame himself after the inquest.
My uncle's biggest step was driving again, the sooner your friend drives again the better.
Lee
02 August 2004, 05:05 PM
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Was it his fault?
If so,attending the funeral,absolutely not,even if it wasnt his fault i dont think its good.
What can you do,give him loads of support and dont let him stew in his own thoughts.Take him out,stuff like that.
If so,attending the funeral,absolutely not,even if it wasnt his fault i dont think its good.
What can you do,give him loads of support and dont let him stew in his own thoughts.Take him out,stuff like that.
02 August 2004, 08:23 PM
#18
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I am gutted for your mate, and the biker - terrible for all concerned.
I have never tried them, but maybe the Samaritans could help?
http://www.samaritans.org.uk/
Pete The Biker
I have never tried them, but maybe the Samaritans could help?
http://www.samaritans.org.uk/
Pete The Biker
03 August 2004, 02:15 AM
#19
Originally Posted by paulr
Was it his fault?
If so,attending the funeral,absolutely not,even if it wasnt his fault i dont think its good.
What can you do,give him loads of support and dont let him stew in his own thoughts.Take him out,stuff like that.
If so,attending the funeral,absolutely not,even if it wasnt his fault i dont think its good.
What can you do,give him loads of support and dont let him stew in his own thoughts.Take him out,stuff like that.
he says he checked mirrors before manouver and indicated, as there was a car behind.
as he reached the middle of the road, bang.
woman that was driving behind him, left a statement, stating the biker shot past her, at an unbelievably fast speed!!
fast bike, nice weather and matlock bath = many accidents over the years.
thanks for all your comments and pm's.
james
03 August 2004, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by **************
Counselling is probably a must here, the images he will have from seeing the biker when the ambulance crew turned him over will haunt him for the rest of his life if he doesn't get help to deal with those images.
Nathan..
03 August 2004, 10:04 AM
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Have absolutely no experience of this, but would certainly suggest you encourage your friend to get some professional counselling. Have been through different traumas in my life and to speak to a professional who is not personally involved with you in anyway is one of the best things I've done.
He'll need a lot of support to get through this - whether he was to blame or not will probably be irreleavnt to him right now.
The support of friends will be invaluable, but professional input can only help.
He'll need a lot of support to get through this - whether he was to blame or not will probably be irreleavnt to him right now.
The support of friends will be invaluable, but professional input can only help.
03 August 2004, 12:16 PM
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have to agree with DBW re the counselling thing. i wish i had taken up the opportunity to avail myself of the service after my car crash. took me ages to get back behind the wheel of a car again. other situations in my life have been quite stressfull and talking about it to someone totally detatched from your situation helped me enormously. hope your friend is ok and i can empathise with him, there is no getting round the fact that this is going to be a really difficult time for him.
cheers
big sinky
cheers
big sinky
03 August 2004, 12:21 PM
#23
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Make sure your pal does not go to the funeral and that he has no contact with the family. This is hard I know but it is seen as accepting some guilt and can be used against him.
I was involved in a fatal accident some years ago, an old man (suffering from a bit of dementia) he was in the middle of the two lanes of a dual carriage way and he just stepped straight infront of me. I hit him while swerving on to the grass central reservation, got out of the car only to see an artic run him over. Cars on their roofs and spinning cars, it was a mess.
But my family helped me get through it, he will need support at the inquest. Was the motor cyclist going the same way? Or in the opposite direction?
He must not contact the family though. Just be there for him ........it helps if you dont blame yourself.
If he still feels bad in a month or two then seek counselling he may well recover on his own and counselling may make it a bigger issue. But he'll never forget it.
I was involved in a fatal accident some years ago, an old man (suffering from a bit of dementia) he was in the middle of the two lanes of a dual carriage way and he just stepped straight infront of me. I hit him while swerving on to the grass central reservation, got out of the car only to see an artic run him over. Cars on their roofs and spinning cars, it was a mess.
But my family helped me get through it, he will need support at the inquest. Was the motor cyclist going the same way? Or in the opposite direction?
He must not contact the family though. Just be there for him ........it helps if you dont blame yourself.
If he still feels bad in a month or two then seek counselling he may well recover on his own and counselling may make it a bigger issue. But he'll never forget it.
Last edited by r32; 03 August 2004 at 12:24 PM.
03 August 2004, 01:10 PM
#24
Originally Posted by r32
Make sure your pal does not go to the funeral and that he has no contact with the family. This is hard I know but it is seen as accepting some guilt and can be used against him.
I was involved in a fatal accident some years ago, an old man (suffering from a bit of dementia) he was in the middle of the two lanes of a dual carriage way and he just stepped straight infront of me. I hit him while swerving on to the grass central reservation, got out of the car only to see an artic run him over. Cars on their roofs and spinning cars, it was a mess.
But my family helped me get through it, he will need support at the inquest. Was the motor cyclist going the same way? Or in the opposite direction?
He must not contact the family though. Just be there for him ........it helps if you dont blame yourself.
If he still feels bad in a month or two then seek counselling he may well recover on his own and counselling may make it a bigger issue. But he'll never forget it.
I was involved in a fatal accident some years ago, an old man (suffering from a bit of dementia) he was in the middle of the two lanes of a dual carriage way and he just stepped straight infront of me. I hit him while swerving on to the grass central reservation, got out of the car only to see an artic run him over. Cars on their roofs and spinning cars, it was a mess.
But my family helped me get through it, he will need support at the inquest. Was the motor cyclist going the same way? Or in the opposite direction?
He must not contact the family though. Just be there for him ........it helps if you dont blame yourself.
If he still feels bad in a month or two then seek counselling he may well recover on his own and counselling may make it a bigger issue. But he'll never forget it.
jamo
03 August 2004, 02:39 PM
#25
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I agree making contact in any way (flowers, a letter or show up at the funeral) MIGHT be considered an admission of guilt. The family dont care if your mate is sorry, they are much more than that. Tell him to avoid all contact and only do what he has to.
I wont go into details but it was odd
03 August 2004, 09:05 PM
#28
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A guy I used to knock about with was involved in a fatal RTA years ago. A guy, who was pi$$ed out of his head stumbled out between two cars and walked straight into the path of my mates van at about 1AM. The accident was investigated, where my mate was cleared of any blame, it was estimated he was doing LESS than 30 MPH. My mate suffered from guilt for a long while, but finally came out of the other side. It will take time.
Don't forget, your friend MAY have to face a Coroners inquest as well. Although it's still early doors, he MAY wish to start thinking of legal advice.
As for you, be around, look after him, don't push him into talking about it, but listen if he does. Obvious, I know.
I wish him all the best and peace of mind.
Don't forget, your friend MAY have to face a Coroners inquest as well. Although it's still early doors, he MAY wish to start thinking of legal advice.
As for you, be around, look after him, don't push him into talking about it, but listen if he does. Obvious, I know.
I wish him all the best and peace of mind.
03 August 2004, 09:18 PM
#29
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I can't add anything to what has already been suggested, but if the Police are saying that he is in the clear, I just hope that this helps him. It still will not be easy for him just knowing that he was involved and what he saw, but this may help. He shouldn't feel guilty, but he will need a lot of support from friends and family to reinforce this.
You need to be there for him and it looks like you are. Best wishes to him, you, and the family of the biker.
You need to be there for him and it looks like you are. Best wishes to him, you, and the family of the biker.
04 August 2004, 07:15 AM
#30
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Your friend really has to believe that he wasnt responsible for this accident. One major rule of motorcycling (any driving really) is never overtake a car near a junction, any junction, a road, farm entrance etc etc even if the vehicle is not indicating.
In my case I realised that there was nothing I could have done, thankfully I had a police sargent in the car behind as a witness. But he must feel that it really wasnt his fault. Then he'll come out the other side.....
In my case I realised that there was nothing I could have done, thankfully I had a police sargent in the car behind as a witness. But he must feel that it really wasnt his fault. Then he'll come out the other side.....