ProperCharlie

maybe i am missing something obvious here, but why did the 2-2 denmark-sweden result mean that italy went out *regardless* of the score in their game against bulgaria? if the italians had won 9-0, they would have had the best goal difference, so by my logic would have finished up top of the group, with everyone having 5 points for two draws and one win, except bulgaria, with zero points...

tia.

OllyK

It's all a conspiracy

ProperCharlie

ahh... that explains it.

fast bloke

I think it comes down to goals scored between the teams that draw - I thought that if Italy won 4-1 then they would go through on more goals scored than denmark. Seems not though

davegtt

I was stuck with this 2 thought that when it was 1-1 Italy could go through if they won 3-1 (by 2 clear goals as stated by the commentator) so when it was 2-2 why should that change apart from denmark had scored 2 goals now so italy would have had to score an extra to make it 4-1 although only explanation I could come up with was that the commentator did say regardless of what italy do, I just presume he meant that italy didnt have time to score another 2 goals to make 4-1??? just a thought?

OllyK

OK I know naff all about footy, but when I was at Uni and we did a group project I got out voted and it ended up being football related. I will no doubt be corrected if I am wrong here but.

I think you get so many points for a win (say 2), less for a draw (say 1 each) and none for a loss. The goal difference comes in to play if teams have the same number of points.

Now again, dunno the actual figures, but...

Assume Sweden and Denmark have 3 points each and Italy has 1. If Italy win, they get 2 points putting them on 3. But as Sweden and Denmark both have 3 and draw they are both now on 4 points and Italy go out.

If Sweden had lost, then both Sweden and Italy would have been on 3 points and then goal difference would have been looked at.

Well it kinda makes sense to me - even if I am wrong

ProperCharlie

from reading the paper today it seems that the 2-2 score prevented italy going through regardless of the score in their game. this was known in advance, hence the conspiracy theories and "2-2, CIAO" banners

seems an odd way of determining the group.

olly - the top three teams all ended on 5 points.

fast bloke

The commentator said before the match that if the other match was 2-2 then the Italy result would make no difference

OllyK

Just found this:
Which suggests my theory may be correct - wow, Olly the footbal pundit

fast bloke

Olly - All the teams ended up with 5 points - usually after that it is decided by goal difference and then goals scored. In this case a 4-1 win for Italy would have given them a better GD than Denmark after a 2-2 draw with Sweden. It seems to hinge on the fact that Italy drew 0-0 and 1-1 with the Denmark and Sweden while they drew 2-2 with each other, so they all have a GD of 0 with each other but Denmark and Sweden have scored more goals

ProperCharlie

olly - i can undertsand italy going out due to inferior goal difference or fewer goals scored, but this could have been changed by a 4-1 (or better) result in italy's game, as people have been saying above. what i can't understand is why the 2-2 result in the other game meant italy were scuppered regardless of the result in their match.

TelBoy

It's because the head-to-head results counted first in the event of a points draw. Hence anything better than 1-1 between Denmark and Sweden won if for them, as Denmark Italy was 0-0 and Sweden Italy was 1-1.

OllyK

Oh bu88er. I dunno then, maybe they get peanalised for being on the wrong side in the war then?

TelBoy

What do i win?

ProperCharlie

now that *would* make sense. can the same rule be used against the french?

ProperCharlie

Tel - so are you saying that the results against bulgaria were effectively discounted as everyone beat them?

OllyK

Sadly not, while they didn't do much other than get invaded and left it to the rest of us to sort it all out, we were technically on the same side Should come in to play with Germany (and Japan in the World Cup) though

TelBoy

Yes. The only thing that was important at the time they all had 5 points was their head to head results.


I don't want a goldfish thanks.

fast bloke

what about a new pink fluffy pencil?

ProperCharlie

how about a large and very ugly stuffed toy, then?

davegtt

Off course how did I forget this, it goes down to who did what against each other, so demark and sweeden had the higher scoring draws that any of the draws italy played then they go through

TelBoy

You're not getting the prize you know.

Fixel

Tiebreakers explained

fast bloke

I think it should be decided by the two managers playing paper scissors rock

Fixel

With real scissors and rocks?

Spoon

If ever I've read a thread/s with someone posting complete and utter drivel for the sake of posting and not to help the original query then it has to be this one.

Well done OllyK.















Not.

fast bloke

pot kettle black calling etc etc


Spoon - How does your post help?

Spoon

My post was posted after the query was sorted.

It was not intended to help.

The purpose of your post was?

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

If Italy fail to beat Bulgaria, Denmark and Sweden will advance to the quarter-finals.
If Sweden do not lose to Denmark, Sweden will advance to the quarter-finals.
If Italy win their game against Bulgaria the winner of Denmark-Sweden will join Italy in the quarter-finals.
If Italy beat Bulgaria and Denmark-Sweden ends in 0-0 draw, Sweden and Italy will advance to the last eight.
If Italy beat Bulgaria by two goals and Denmark-Sweden ends in 1-1 draw, Italy will join Sweden in the knock-out stages. However if Italy beat Bulgaria by just one goal and Denmark-Sweden ends in a 1-1 draw, Denmark will join Sweden in the quarter-finals.
If Italy beat Bulgaria and Denmark-Sweden ends in 2-2 draw, Sweden and Denmark will advance to the quarter-finals.

In the event of a tie, Uefa criteria will be used to separate the teams.

Tiebreakers explained

If two or more teams finish level on points at the end of the group phase, these are the criteria which will be used to determine the final group placings:
1 Greater number of points in the matches between the teams in question
2 Goal difference from matches between the teams in question
3 Greater number of goals scored in matches between the teams in question
4 Goal difference resulting from all three group games
5 Greater number of goals scored in all group games
6 Coefficient derived from UEFA EURO 2004 and FIFA 2002 World Cup qualifiers (points obtained divided by number of matches played)
7 Fair Play ranking
8 Drawing of lots by the Committee for the European Championship only applicable if more than two teams are level


If two teams meeting in one of the last group matches have the same number of points, the same goal difference and the same number of goals, and if this match stands at a draw at the end of normal time, the ranking of these two teams will be determined by kicks from the penalty mark rather than the above-mentioned criteria.
COEFFICIENT TABLE
Country Group Coefficient
France B 3.000
Portugal A 2.400
Sweden C 2.389
Czech Republic D 2.333
Italy C 2.313
Spain A 2.313
England B 2.313
Germany D 2.188
Holland D 2.167
Croatia B 2.125
Denmark C 2.056
Russia A 2.056
Bulgaria C 1.889
Switzerland B 1.611
Greece A 1.563
Latvia D 1.250

yoza

I was under the impression that if you scored more goals than the other team you won.

And if they scored more goals than you, you lost.

Then it gets technical......if no one scores its a draw, and if you score the same as the other team, its also a draw.

OllyK, eat your heart out.