LG John

None of this 'my friend' crap I've got a problem and need advice.

As a lot of you know I work for a Local Authority Council and just today I was called in and seated in front of two internal audit peeps. It was explained to me that they were going to take my hard-drive away and investigate me for looking at pornographic material on the council PC. They showed me a print out of some pictures most of which I couldn't make out as they were just small thumbs but some looked like ones that may have been hotlinked into SN (muppet show, etc).

You might say, 'you've brought this on yourself Saxo' and that would be fair enough if I had knowingly looked at **** at work. But, I haven't I like a bit of **** as much as the next guy, but I have broadband at home so save it for after work. The truth of the matter is the only sites I access with any regularity at work are Scoobynet, the Clio Forum, eBay, my bank account, and often links from Scoobynet. The Councils system has 'websense' which is usually very good at picking up on anything I shouldn't access at work so if I click on any dodgy links from SN threads I can't access them. In fact I honestly can't recall ever linking to something suspect and if I did or a dodgy pop up appeared I'd just shut it down instantly. On my drive home I started to think more about what I've linked to from SN. Recently someone linked to the Strathycruise website and I scanned the cruise pictures for amusing pictures of neds (chavs for you English) of which I found loads There were dozens of thumbnails so I guess there might have been a boob or a thong showing somewhere in there although I recall the pictures being primarily of fit lasses that were clothed and cars. Also, even in muppets Telboy et al will often post up a scantily clad UPV wearing lass but I don't recall anything naked ever being posted on SN. Then there was that zurich thread which I scanned for 20 seconds and it has some lasses on nights out kissing, etc. The only other thing I can think of is Google image searches which I use if I want to hotlink an image into a muppet thread, etc. There might be the odd thumb on the screen that is dodgy and slips through the google net when I put in a normal non-**** related search word but I sure as hell would never click on it.

So my questions are: What can I expect to happen? What rights do I have? What actually constitutes ****? What constitutes accessing ****? That later question is of vital importance because as I said I've never knowingly or delibrately accessed **** at work.

The next problem is time spent on the internet and this is where I'm defo fvcked for sure. The IT policy which everyone with Internet access signed is that you can use the net for 1 hour of personal access a week, which btw is about 12 minutes a day and kinda crap when the statutory lunch break is 30 minutes My useage of SN far exceeds that and I'm willing to put my hand up to that and take the flack for it. I have no excuse. But **** at work.....no, that's not me!!!

I guess it all depends on what they want to achieve from this. If they are looking to see if I have been delibrately accessing sites I shouldn't then I'm pretty confident I'll be ok but if they are looking for a way to fire me then I'm rubber ducked. It almost impossible to use SN and not have a suspect picture cached somewhere and on top of that I've been going well over the 1 hour useage and send lots of private emails which often contain personal and sexual discussions (making arrangements with eClaire for example ).

I believe there was a thread on this or similar to this recently so I'll go find it but I'd appreciate all and any advice and thoughts. Also, if I do get fired from a LA job I assume that would make it virtually impossible to get any reasonable employment elsewhere (i.e. would pretty much be career ending). <sigh, great weekend ahead>

The_Gza

Unlucky mate - don't suppose you can hire a large electromagnet to wipe your PC and the servers *cough* accidentally?

Pretty scary to think though - could probably be 95% of us that are on here

I'll have my fingers crossed for you!

King RA

if your at work then go to tools and internet options and 'delete files' this should clear the cache out for anyone else worried, do it once a week.

boxst

Hello

You can also get tools like http://users.belgacom.net/hestia/windowwasher-index.htm that clear your cache and wipe them so only the most keen can retrieve them every time you shutdown your computer.

As for your problem, what else does it say in your contract about misuse of the internet? I would assume that this is your first offence and hence you will get a warning.

I would imagine you have to have several pictures of sexual acts for it to be deemed as a sackable offence.

Steve.

King RA

...also click clear history in the same bit.

jasey

Read up on your disciplinary policy if I were you - hopefully you're in for a written warning - but it may be worse.

Keep reminding them that any "Dodgy" material is only there from misguided individuals posting in-appropriate material on a site for fast cars.

You're probably right - the spending too much time not doing your job issue might be worse than soft **** one.

Good luck.

ps When they find out that you spend so much time with a bunch of muppets you could be in more trouble

brickboy

There's a great freeware program called Necrofile (I think Necrofile.com) which has two functions: 1) It can shred selected files 2) It makes multiple passes over the "free space" on your disks to make any deleted files unrecoverable against all but weapons-grade forensic tools.

Dazza01

not being pc minded at all, but our system works of a server thing that feeds all the pc's in the office, it also keeps a track of every site we hit, but it has been set up to stop people accessing ****, but im glad to say i can now view SN once again , as i made a formal compliant to the boss cos it was blocked but as i am the only person who uses the site i said it was unfair to stop me viewing it as other people could view other public forums. so the block was taken off

Hope all goes well mate

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

No point clearing the cache and history if they are using web logging software.

They will have a log of your access, which sites, how long, what time, etc.

GaryCat

Tell them that your surfing was before 9am and after 5.30pm and you always made your hours up.

It's no use clearing your PC cache if the access logs are recorded in websense or whatever.

sti555

Saxo Boy,

Having problems myself mate,

Keep us posted

Drunken Bungle Whore

Hmm - this sounds jolly familiar - a friend was recently sacked from the local council for exactly the same thing. He's now taking them to a tribunal for several different reasons. My background is in HR so here's my thoughts:

1. They need evidence - clear proof - loads of tribunals have been settled beforehand because the comapny couldn't provide any definite proof.

2. They have to be fully consistent. There's been a rash of organisations recently trying to "make and example" of people and they've mostly been losing tribunal cases. If they want to sack you/ warn you for misuse of IT/ email then they have to sack/ warn every other person who has done exactly the same as you.

3. Get hold of a copy of your contract, your disciplinary procedures and your IT useage policy ASAP. The small print in there may help you.

4. If you're a member of a union the get hold of them now. If not then go see your local Citizens Advice Bureau - trust me, they really are very good.

Sorry I can't be of more use, but it def sounds like something the council is cracking down on at the mo. My friend was sacked on the basis of dodgy emails he received from a colleague that they say he didn't discourage. They said that the fact that he'd double deleted all his files was "proof" that he was doing something suspicious - they don't have any actual proof of anything, but still sacked him - so my best advice is get as much proper, independent advice as possible and tread *very* carefully.

Good luck!

jasey

An interesting defence (should you need it) is that you thaught that the LA were supposed to protect YOU from **** and that they had failed in their duty. You were only accessing a public forum for cars and they hadn't done enough to protect you from yourself (their software was not very good at protecting you).


Only use this in an emergency as it will probably be the end of internet access for all LAs

LG John

LOL, ultimately that's the truth

Let it be a warning to all SN regulars, without knowing it you probably do see enough dodgy stuff on here a week to cause you problems at work! I know how to clear the cache, etc but I've never done it at work because I've never felt I had anything to hide.

I read through the other thread where Scooby96 responded in detail about his experiences and it looks like I'm ducked! I've been at the council with that computer for 3 years. Even though I've been using it for innocent car related purposes that more then enough time to accumulate some dodgy stuff somewhere and I'm defo screwed for useage and emails. I email people/friends as if I'd talk to them without a second though for the fact its technically my work email. In fact if I meet someone new I'd probably hand out my work email before any other :groan: I should have known better in the society we live in today. Its a wonder this country doesn't just grind to a hault as everyone points the finger of blame everywhere else and things are checked, audited and the auditors are in turn audited, etc.

I'm of the the poker forum to see if my skill level is sufficient to make a living at it yet

speedking

Is there any possibility that someone else has been using your pc to look at pictures while you are away from your desk? We are supposed to logout every time we leave the desk, but that is unworkable, and so we don't. Trouble is that "the policy" states that we must and therefore not a defence.

If you can find one time when you were in a meeting (or better still on holiday) and a dodgy site was accessed then the prosecution case will be very difficult to pursue.

Has "the access policy" been changed since you signed it. If so your acceptance does not amount to much. We have to click our acceptance every time we log on, before we can see a policy that might have changed

For a first offence a warning would be appropriate. The knowledge that you are being watched should improve your workrate in future

Good luck.

(Presume you won't post till this evening.)

David_Wallis

Nope.

Speaking as someone that works in IT and has a hand in a few, 'c ya later, here's your p45' meetings then that wont do you anygood..

History, favourites, cookies, temorary internet files are all ok, but not good enough..

Unless you go through a locally attached modem for internet access then your fooked...

firewall will tell you source ip, destination ip, time elapsed, user id, data transferred.. etc etc etc..

Also top sites, top 10 users etc can be scary..

You need them to give you a copy of their evidence, however my advice would be consult legal advice ASAP.

David

jasey

"The only other thing I can think of is Google image searches which I use if I want to hotlink an image into a muppet thread, etc. There might be the odd thumb on the screen that is dodgy and slips through the google net when I put in a normal non-**** related search word but I sure as hell would never click on it."


This could be tricky too - depending on what you typed in for a search you could find them coming back and saying "So why were you looking for images of PVC ***** and ***** ?"

Get you story straight for any searches you might have done !

The_Gza

This is all getting scary - I'm logging off now

*click*

sti555

Necrofile here:

http://www.necrocosm.com/nfpro.html

jasey

Sorry for the bitty replies here but also;


I don't think they can sack you for accessing **** during work (well not for the **** bit anyway - **** isn't illegal) - I'm not even sure they are actually allowed to view your personal activities - you do have the right to privacy - check the IT Policy and the fact you have signed something stating they can watch what you are doing - if they haven't got your authority to "snoop" you're in the clear and they have committed a crime (check with a lawyer before quoting me on that one).

LG John

It would be nice if I could tell them that and it NOT be a lie I recently was chatting to my line manager and he confirmed that I'm meeting my work targets. I actually admitted to him that I'd been p!ssing around too much at work of late despite meeting these targets and would strive to achieve more.

The most recent google image search I did was 'saxo' and then 'boy' for the 'picture that describes you best' thread in Muppets. Boy certainly 'sounds' dodgy but having just done the same search from home there is nothing pornographic or dodgy that I can see.

I thought of this one too! Whilst it bugged the crap out of me when they installed Websense it was a relief to know that I counldn't inadvertantly access anything I shouldn't...............or so I thought

This is the most interesting thing so far. Pretty much everyone in the Council will exceed the 1 hour a week limit, especially in my office. Everyone in my office uses email for personal purposes and everyone gets forwards sent to them as we'll often wind up crowded round a PC to look at them. Whilst they might be able to prove I'm the 'worst case' of breach of IT rules I could also prove that 50% of the people in my room alone also breach the rules. I don't want to cause anyone else problems so how could I play that without getting everyone investigated

jasey

If it comes down to it it's you against them and **** your colleagues. If you are doing the same as everyone else and they want to sack you tell them you'll see tem at the tribunal unless they sack everyone .

Sorted - Now enjoy the rest of your weekend .

Scooby96

SB - PM me if you like, I'm still languishing at home after being sacked ** cough ** I mean resigned!

**** is gross misconduct as is misuse of company time.

I strongly suggest you get the raw data analysed independently. Find out what tools theyve used to analyse the data themselves (ie webtrends). My proxy logs exceeded 900MB!. They also methodically went through my C: U: etc etc and listed over 2000 non work related word / excel / access / powerpoint / pdf flies.

I must add though that **** was never mentioned in my disciplinary although they made reference to "a video containing a naked woman" which was actually a cartoon called "dreamjob.mpg" - a cartoon penguin mowing a womans muff!

I was sacked for misuse of company time (x hrs internet use per day) far exceeding what would be appropriate for my job, and excessive personal emails (the content of which was never discussed at the hearing thank god as some were very private between my missus and I) and for setting up 2 ebay sales!

Good luck - I hope the same SN users with a good knowledge of this stuff (especially the IT relevance) do read your thread and make contact. For the life of em I cannot remember who helped me out.

S96

Simon Lau

So I guess they've taken your hard-dirve then?

Saxo, in meantime there's not much you can do until they've conducted the investigation but the server will have logged all sites you've accessed and at what times (as already mentioned). In my opinion, the logical option for you is to tell the truth i.e. what you stated above as "you've got nothing to hide" right? and hope they're lenient on you by concluding that you've just simply over used your allocated Internet time.

You're going to have a whizz of a time explaining Muppet's

Good luck duda!

ProperCharlie

SB - very sorry to hear this. Best of luck, mate.

seems this is a pretty worrying trend. surely they can't just go around sacking everyone for a bit of internet time? more to the point - it seems like they can, but where will it end? i can see people asking to have their PCs disconnected from the 'net to protect themselves.

imlach

Yeah, condolences, could probably happen to any of us.

I imagine the consequences could be seen as worse in your office given you are employed by the council, ie, the man on the street pays your wages ultimately
So, definitely not in the public interest to have people wasting public money.

Luckily, I work for a private company, and so any web misuse is between me & them.

Not really a worthwhile post from me, but just a wayward view.

imlach

Our companies stand is that personal use of the web is acceptable, but no concrete data limit/time limit exists AFAIK. I guess browsing news websites at lunchtime is fine, as is accessing personal banking during breaks etc....

...obviously any work related surfing is unlimited as well.

Our company is pretty reasonable about it, so long as it's not severe misuse (ie, not getting any work done or affecting deadlines etc), or accessing dodgy stuff.

We've had a few dismissals over the years - 1 was for someone that just surfed all day and did NO work whatsoever, and the other was for dodgy stuff.

David_Wallis

saxo, check your contract and do a search for RIP. regulatory investigatory powers.

imlach

Oh, and it reminds me of one of our managers who got hauled up for looking at www.morsex.com as company were worried about the number of times he'd accessed that 'sex' website...

You'd think they'd have checked to make sure it wasn't a morse code website first

Scooby96

Thing is everyone knows its wrong to do it so I think be honest but dont get shafted - fight back as dirty as you can.

However why take my advice

Anyway I've never been happier since "I left" - I have absolutely no stress, apart from now being the main carer of 3 kids with another on the way..... **** me I'm gonna get down the job centre monday as these fecking kids are driving me crazy (joke!)

Good luck SB.

If it does go t1ts up then I expect to see at least 20 posts asking for advice on a multitude of possible new careers.....