Cremation, coffins, alternatives...?
01 February 2004, 02:39 PM
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Sorry if this is a bit morbid, but I've just been talking to my Mum and she was saying that the idea of paying £500 (or whatever) for a coffin just to have it burnt is a complete waste of money. I completely agree and don't like the idea of either paying loads for a really ornate coffin, or being ripped off and paying over the odds for a "cheap" chipboard one. (My family are Scottish and my Mum reckons that there must be some Jewish blood in there from some time back 
)
As she wants to be cremated, what alternatives are there to wooden coffins? She is talking of donating her body to Glasgow University's Medical School and is going to investigate this further during the week, but I reckon that when they're finished with cutting her up they will return the remains to the family for disposal. This brings us back to the original problem - cremation in a "use once" wooden coffin.
My Mum and I are both happy with the idea that her body doesn't actually need to be present at her funeral. If medical science can benefit, family and friends can get together without her remains to remember her life.
She has said that she has no problem about going to the crematorium in a binbag, but does anyone know of anything in-between? ie. Preserving some dignity, but not being the rip-off that funeral undertakers charge for a piece of the cabinet-makers' art that is only going straight onto the fire?
Doug
)As she wants to be cremated, what alternatives are there to wooden coffins? She is talking of donating her body to Glasgow University's Medical School and is going to investigate this further during the week, but I reckon that when they're finished with cutting her up they will return the remains to the family for disposal. This brings us back to the original problem - cremation in a "use once" wooden coffin.
My Mum and I are both happy with the idea that her body doesn't actually need to be present at her funeral. If medical science can benefit, family and friends can get together without her remains to remember her life.
She has said that she has no problem about going to the crematorium in a binbag, but does anyone know of anything in-between? ie. Preserving some dignity, but not being the rip-off that funeral undertakers charge for a piece of the cabinet-makers' art that is only going straight onto the fire?
Doug
01 February 2004, 02:51 PM
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Haven't got any answers, but I totally agree with your mum. I think Funeral Directors are the biggest rip-off merchants going. Trouble is they have got a closed shop, because legally you have got to do things properly.
As far as I'm concerned, when I die, they can cut out anything that is of any use to anyone and chuck the rest out with the rubbish. If I'm dead, I wont know anything about it!
As far as I'm concerned, when I die, they can cut out anything that is of any use to anyone and chuck the rest out with the rubbish. If I'm dead, I wont know anything about it!
01 February 2004, 03:03 PM
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My Father in Law died last year - funeral director's costs were over 2k, and that was with a 'middle of the road' coffin. 
I'll be leaving instructions that make it as cheap as possible.
I'll be leaving instructions that make it as cheap as possible.
01 February 2004, 03:42 PM
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01 February 2004, 05:19 PM
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Thanks all. Numptie/Butty - the problem is that my Mum wants to be cremated, not to take up any space. As said by lmsbman, if there are any pieces of meat from our bodies which can be used by anyone else to preserve someone else's life, then please take them. The corpse in the coffin isn't the person; their "soul", or personality, or whatever made them unique and special to you, is what has been lost.
Are cardboard coffins (made of recycled paper) available? Totally agree with the comment that funeral directors are the biggest rip-off going as who is going to question the price of what they offer at such a time of emotional distress? "Well, sir. You can go for the £1500 coffin, but that's the bottom of the range. Would your late father/mother/sister/brother/etc. be pleased to think that you want to do things as cheaply as possible?" In the case of my Mum, myself and others here, we don't give a stuff!
Doug
Doug
Are cardboard coffins (made of recycled paper) available? Totally agree with the comment that funeral directors are the biggest rip-off going as who is going to question the price of what they offer at such a time of emotional distress? "Well, sir. You can go for the £1500 coffin, but that's the bottom of the range. Would your late father/mother/sister/brother/etc. be pleased to think that you want to do things as cheaply as possible?" In the case of my Mum, myself and others here, we don't give a stuff!
Doug
Doug
01 February 2004, 07:43 PM
#7
Watch "New Yankee Workshop" on Disco Home & Lesuire I'm sure they'll show you how to knock one up in 10mins using £10K of power tools that every DIY enthusiast will have in their shed
Alternatively...use a nice replica antique wardrobe and nail the doors shut - sorted!
Alternatively...use a nice replica antique wardrobe and nail the doors shut - sorted!
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01 February 2004, 07:45 PM
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Doug, hat's off to you for beiing able to discuss this with your mum, personally it will wipe me when it happens,your post makes me a bit maudlin TBH 
LMFAO @ Ali - I watched nearley every episode of that, If Norm ain't got it - It ain't worth havin...
..Now lets take a minute to talk about shop safety, blah blah blah......
[Edited by mj - 2/1/2004 7:51:21 PM]
LMFAO @ Ali - I watched nearley every episode of that, If Norm ain't got it - It ain't worth havin
.....Now lets take a minute to talk about shop safety, blah blah blah......
[Edited by mj - 2/1/2004 7:51:21 PM]
01 February 2004, 08:16 PM
#10
I want burying with my **** above ground so I can be used as a cycle rack after my death.
A mini skip is only 50 quid, so I have instructed my wife to hire one and cover me with rubble, job done.
Funeral directors come over all reverant and sombre, I bet they get back, put the kettle on and throw wads of tenners around. 1500 quid for a plywood box, mental, its like anything else around either birth marriage or death, people are either to emotional or dont want to look a tight-wad so they pay for it, we kind of expect to be fleeced. June Whitfeild keeps instructing oldies to make plans for their funerals so as not to burden their offspring, bugger that, mine will owe me big style by then, they can cough up when I croak, WITH MY MONEY NO DOUBT !
A mini skip is only 50 quid, so I have instructed my wife to hire one and cover me with rubble, job done.
Funeral directors come over all reverant and sombre, I bet they get back, put the kettle on and throw wads of tenners around. 1500 quid for a plywood box, mental, its like anything else around either birth marriage or death, people are either to emotional or dont want to look a tight-wad so they pay for it, we kind of expect to be fleeced. June Whitfeild keeps instructing oldies to make plans for their funerals so as not to burden their offspring, bugger that, mine will owe me big style by then, they can cough up when I croak, WITH MY MONEY NO DOUBT !
01 February 2004, 08:24 PM
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Should burn well, and they only cost just over £100, so good value too, cangine whet the funeral director would say though 'can I supply my own coffin?'
[Edited by RON - 2/1/2004 8:29:20 PM]
01 February 2004, 10:16 PM
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If my memory serves me correctly
there is no legal requirement for a coffin to be used for a burial or cremation,
however you must take into account the dignity of the deceased, and the relatives.
that aside, you can make our own coffin out of chipboard, or other similar material and as long as there are no major metal objects then you should be ok.
please bear in mind that the coffin must be able to support the weight of the deceased, and any natural leakage that occurs.
you dont have to use a hearse to transport the coffin to the crematoruim, an estate car will suffice.
with regards to undertakers fees, i agree they seem high, but if you break them down, the costings are about right
i appreciate your openness at this stage, but i met very few people who actually went down this route when the actual death occured.
Most people prefer to leave it to the undertaker,
but its your choice
Mart
there is no legal requirement for a coffin to be used for a burial or cremation,
however you must take into account the dignity of the deceased, and the relatives.
that aside, you can make our own coffin out of chipboard, or other similar material and as long as there are no major metal objects then you should be ok.
please bear in mind that the coffin must be able to support the weight of the deceased, and any natural leakage that occurs.
you dont have to use a hearse to transport the coffin to the crematoruim, an estate car will suffice.
with regards to undertakers fees, i agree they seem high, but if you break them down, the costings are about right
i appreciate your openness at this stage, but i met very few people who actually went down this route when the actual death occured.
Most people prefer to leave it to the undertaker,
but its your choice
Mart
02 February 2004, 12:33 AM
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some cultures feed bodies to other animals as a form of generosity and compassion. Although to the modern culture, people might take it as disrespect or even wrong doing.
I prefer to think it's pure unadultered, unattached giving away of myself...
I prefer to think it's pure unadultered, unattached giving away of myself...
02 February 2004, 01:00 AM
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tell her to make sure medical science know they can use the heap - That way the skeleton gets handed over to a med student for 6 months of practical jokes, and several years of learning... I don't personally care what happnes after I die, as long as it doesn't cost whatever family I have at that time a load of money - I was trying to pre-buy a viking burial, but the MOD and coastguards wouldn't run with it
02 February 2004, 03:01 AM
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that aside, you can make our own coffin out of chipboard, or other similar material and as long as there are no major metal objects then you should be ok.
please bear in mind that the coffin must be able to support the weight of the deceased, and any natural leakage that occurs.
you dont have to use a hearse to transport the coffin to the crematoruim, an estate car will suffice.
please bear in mind that the coffin must be able to support the weight of the deceased, and any natural leakage that occurs.
you dont have to use a hearse to transport the coffin to the crematoruim, an estate car will suffice.
PG, if you're reading this, please offer a shot of your car to the missus when i croak.
Speak to the boys in your work about knocking me up an MDF coffin as well would ya
02 February 2004, 12:13 PM
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Just saw an article in today's Daily Telegraph which is very relevant. Apparently, a Polish company is selling about 100 wicker coffins per month in the UK. People are choosing them because they are cheap and burn well. I think we now have the answer!
Doug
Doug
02 February 2004, 12:28 PM
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If you go for a burial at sea, just need wrapping up in cloth and sealing, bit like a Mummy. In light of what others have said about the requirements for a coffin, this may work and be carried on a board as they do on board ship.
08 February 2004, 06:52 PM
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An update - (RON. Your link didn't work, but looks like it could be interesting.)
During the week, my Mum visited an undertaker to get rough ideas of prices and also contacted Glasgow University to find out more about the "donate the body" idea.
The cheapest coffin from the undertaker is £950!! As they charge more for wicker or cardboard coffins, I reckon that they're just a bunch of profiteering con-men who prey on peoples' reluctance to question anything at a highly emotional time when people are looking for guidance. A Google for wicker coffins earlier in the week showed that, without searching too far, a wicker coffin is available for about £500....
Other charges were just over £100 for a doctor to certify that the body is fit for cremation, and £300+ for the crematorium charges. Add on the cost of hiring the hearse, plus charges for the funeral director's staff and this is not cheap. On top of that, if the mourners go to a hotel or pub for sandwiches and drinks afterwards, there is only one direction in which costs are heading. So, MooseRacer, I can easily understand how around £2K is spent.
Glasgow University are interested in having bodies donated and age isn't necessarily an issue. They want students to have experience of cutting up bodies to display the muscle and bone structure. Unless the body is extremely obese, or death has resulted from a list of illnesses (HIV being an obvious and understandable example), they are interested in any donations. When they have finished with whatever they need, they arrange the cremation (or burial). The family are told when this will happen and can make alternative arrangements if they wish.
Looks like the answer is going to be that my Mum will donate her body to Glasgow Uni. (as she carries an organ donor card, they might not get a complete body if tissue typing matches her to anyone needing a kidney or a lung, etc.). If they can't accept her body due to any disease, I need to be armed with the cheaper coffins sources and prices so that we aren't ripped off by an undertaker.
Like mj, I am really not looking forward to having to do this and I hope that it isn't going to be any time soon. My Mum is a very active 75 year old, playing Bridge competitively 3 nights per week. She appears to be in robust good health and is maybe more likely to be killed in a car crash on her way to a Bridge Club that to die of natural causes in the near future. In fact, as I drive around 30K miles per year, I am probably at more risk that her. However, arranging her funeral is something that I do need to think about and as she has strong wishes about not contributing to funeral directors' profits, we have had to discuss this.
Thanks for all the input.
Doug
During the week, my Mum visited an undertaker to get rough ideas of prices and also contacted Glasgow University to find out more about the "donate the body" idea.
The cheapest coffin from the undertaker is £950!! As they charge more for wicker or cardboard coffins, I reckon that they're just a bunch of profiteering con-men who prey on peoples' reluctance to question anything at a highly emotional time when people are looking for guidance. A Google for wicker coffins earlier in the week showed that, without searching too far, a wicker coffin is available for about £500....
Other charges were just over £100 for a doctor to certify that the body is fit for cremation, and £300+ for the crematorium charges. Add on the cost of hiring the hearse, plus charges for the funeral director's staff and this is not cheap. On top of that, if the mourners go to a hotel or pub for sandwiches and drinks afterwards, there is only one direction in which costs are heading. So, MooseRacer, I can easily understand how around £2K is spent.
Glasgow University are interested in having bodies donated and age isn't necessarily an issue. They want students to have experience of cutting up bodies to display the muscle and bone structure. Unless the body is extremely obese, or death has resulted from a list of illnesses (HIV being an obvious and understandable example), they are interested in any donations. When they have finished with whatever they need, they arrange the cremation (or burial). The family are told when this will happen and can make alternative arrangements if they wish.
Looks like the answer is going to be that my Mum will donate her body to Glasgow Uni. (as she carries an organ donor card, they might not get a complete body if tissue typing matches her to anyone needing a kidney or a lung, etc.). If they can't accept her body due to any disease, I need to be armed with the cheaper coffins sources and prices so that we aren't ripped off by an undertaker.
Like mj, I am really not looking forward to having to do this and I hope that it isn't going to be any time soon. My Mum is a very active 75 year old, playing Bridge competitively 3 nights per week. She appears to be in robust good health and is maybe more likely to be killed in a car crash on her way to a Bridge Club that to die of natural causes in the near future. In fact, as I drive around 30K miles per year, I am probably at more risk that her. However, arranging her funeral is something that I do need to think about and as she has strong wishes about not contributing to funeral directors' profits, we have had to discuss this.
Thanks for all the input.
Doug
09 February 2004, 11:38 AM
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Shouldn't be any legal reason why you couldn't provide your own coffin. It'll need to be lined though, but "cheap" coffins are just lined with polythene, stapled to the insides, to contain any fluids. It'll also need to be sturdy enough to be carried, talk to the funeral director.
Metal objects don't pose a problem in cremators, the amount of hip and other body-part replacements that are found afterwards is quite high. They're scraped out with the ashes afterwards. Coffins that go down a catafalque aren't cremated straight away, they're stored until a cremator is ready, usually just a few hours but it depends on the crematorium, so keep that in mind when choosing too.
Metal objects don't pose a problem in cremators, the amount of hip and other body-part replacements that are found afterwards is quite high. They're scraped out with the ashes afterwards. Coffins that go down a catafalque aren't cremated straight away, they're stored until a cremator is ready, usually just a few hours but it depends on the crematorium, so keep that in mind when choosing too.
