Luke

Did you see it.......


very sad. When will the public learn. maybe not in this case??? but all this cash etc is because they accept the builder wont be paying tax etc. So they are part of the greed. Very little paperwork.....

And I doubt if they will ever win in court...


Muppets

mattstant

this makes both you and me very sad Luke for having spotted the scooby from a very narrow interior angle and a quick glimpse of a bonnet bulge from the inside i think the faint noise as they arrived at that con merchants was a give away as well LOL.

mattstant

Have to agree though Luke some of those prices were VERY cheap if they cant smell a rat just looking at some of these jokers there is no hope for them.

Luke

Most deserve to be ripped off. They want it done for cash knowing that maybe the builder will not be paying tax or be insured and probably employing illegal immigrants.

No quotes..No contracts... No receipts for any stage payments etc etc etc etc... Dont feel sorry for them much..

Subaru owner ..dont fancy his chances in a court.. should have sent someone around to "Talk to the builder"

mj

... sorry mate but that is utter twaddle....

I didn't see the program myself but I disgree- from my part of the world cash jobs only need to be done when it looks like you might hit 40%...

...and as for illegal immigrants, forget it. There is no way that I would employ one, especially for £1.36 an hour ( and the're overpaid at that), they should work for free just for the privelidge of learning the lingo.


smell it.

Luke

MJ

Your Talking to a expert on Building cons, tricks and rip off's
Thats why as one of my jobs .I am a consultant to some of the most respected legal companies in London.
Its greed all around..

mj

ok, so you know your onions then....

..though I don't beleive people look at it *that* way....all they want is a cheaper job, they don't know any different. Thats why the conmen are getting away with it.

I blame Linda & Laurence myself.

mj

..and Luke...it's mj.

Luke

mj

God those programmes have cause havoc in the building trade!!!

Most people wnat to get a job a cheap as possible and must be aware of all the horror stories... And if you walk around most sites you will see that most of the workers are not from England.

My advice... Try and get hold of some Polish builders.. Time after time I see their work a lot .Its excellent and the customers are happy.

mj

lUKE,

agree mate.... we get a few jobs on sites in london...the hoist operators,dumper& plant drivers are quite often fresh out from under a HGV trailer, virtually no english whatsoever, and they stop every now&agin with shell shock.

Although it's been a pain to commit to, I hope the CSCS scheme will help get rid of these peasants.

AsifScoob

It was me

Luke

Well I hope youve learnt from it... You and you lady seem like very nice people.. But I couldnt stop ;laughing when you knocked on the pikeys door!!!!!!! "Hello its me" !!!!!

The Kitchen looked good. next time get a good bunch of polish workers in to do the job.. they wont let you down. Or pay me to control it.

ProperCharlie

a bloke that i use plainly asks "will it be cash or cheque?"

when he does stuff round my house i usually give him cash, and the price becomes cheaper. i suppose i am implicitly accepting that he pays no tax on what i give him, but that's his look out. i have a receipt for the cash i handed over if anyone was to ask me any questions. i keep on using him is he carries out work to a good standard and gets jobs done on time. ideally i would prefer to have "all singing, all dancing" paperwork, but that would cost me more and the work might not be as good.

+Doc+

My misses looked at me gone out when I sadi that was a Scoob, how sad are we

AsifScoob

Even while watching it and cringing at myself, I did think "Oh you can see the bonnet scoop, I wonder if a keen eyed scoobynetter will notice that?"

That is sad too!

On a more serious note Luke, it was not about cash and avoiding tax etc. If that is the extent of your thoughts, either you have missed the point or the programme was not successful in conveying what happened.

All the people had a contract with him, including me. I have since come to realise that that does not mean a thing in this country. The system is not set up to deal with people like this.

He very cleverly rides along in between the criminal and civil justice systems, where neither can properly deal with him.

He has conned at least 20 to 30 families from just the people that I know of. The police do nothing, as well as the TSS, OFT and DTI. My MP has got involved to push these along but to no avail so far.

This man is the lowest scum that I can think of right now, he has conned all sorts of people, all decent and law abiding who have sought planning permission for their home improvements.

He has conned pensioners, disabled people, war veterens, families with young children, you name it. He has also conned professionals, including doctors, a SOLICITOR, successful business people, and ME.

I dont care so much for myself believe it or not, it is just the other people, more vulnerable than me, who he has bullied, intimidated and coerced into paying him what he wants. I have met these people and seen what he has done to them and their lives, which is why I feel he must be stopped.

There is an awful lot more to this story, and a lot of it quite serious, which is why the programme stayed away from it, as things would get 'legal'.

He must be stopped.

Asif

ProperCharlie

surely this programme must have damaged him, as now many people know who he is, and so won't go near him? what is stopping him from getting done? apart from anything else, have the IR not investigated him?

Luke

Asif

Not realy having a pop.. but no court will get you your money back...Its all against you. This is how they get away with it.
|I met my wife sorting out a company that had ripped £33K from a lady in a wheelchair.. She had a very major legal team behind her... She never did get it all back. We had full video/audio tapes of what was going on.. Even recorded the company directors talking in their car befoer the final meeting.. They chatted about how they would get away with it.

Next time check them out .. Only use reccomended companies/people.
The yellow pages is full of cowboys.

AsifScoob

PC

Again there is so much detail. I found out where this guy is currently working and went round to see his new victims to warn them.

Now dont ask me exactly why this happens, but some combination of, 'well he has started now', 'no problems so far', 'we have already paid him money up front', 'this couldn't happen to me', and an element of male ego and denial, but these people didn't listen to me.

They had paid him 6 grand at that point and there roof extension has been leaking all through Xmas. I hve been in touch with the man of the house and he has been assuring me that he has not paid him anything extra and there is nothing to worry about.

I spoke to him again before the programme went out and he started on me, saying well if no one has successfully taken this man to task well he is clearly innocent.

After the programme, he phoned me (for the first time) almost in tears, then admitting he has been continuing to pay the builder and has laid out over £17k.

This is all according to the contract and the next big stage payment due is about £3k. I told him that that is the point where the builder will disappear, leaving the electrics, plumbing, plastering, all untouched, the job nowhere near completed, leaks all over the place - well just like mine, you saw the footage last night.

This is the builders MO and it works very well for him. The Police are not interested and the civil authorities are powerless.

He will continue to do what he is doing.

Asif

ProperCharlie

i didn't actually see the programme last night, but it sounds like a total nightmare. i agree that people are easily talked around by people who know how to run a scam. probably could have happened to me as i am very lax and tend to trust people, if they seem genuine. luckily i got someone on personal recommendation and they did a good job. i still find it incredible that nothing is done to stop this happening. i take it that the onus is in the person who has been scammed to sue the guy in the civil courts for breech of contract? or do his contracts make this difficult?

hybwrx2002

he needs a good bashing really :/

hybwrx2002

oh , and your seats look good

AsifScoob

Luke,

I do understand that you are not having a pop, apologise for any defensiveness on my part, thought I had got over it, but obviously dealing with this topic on Scoobynet is new to me.

Yes I have learned since, had to get my house finished didn't I? Found a good British builder, who employs foreigners, who finsihed the job fine.

Found some good British gardeners and Landcapers to do my garden, of which only part of which was visible last night.

Finally some good foreigners to complete the rest of the inside of my house.

ALL of those people came recommended. None of which was available before I employed this chap.

We do live and learn. I have to say I had never had any experience of conmen before this point and was naievly taken in by his signed contract, which I was impressed by, as were all of his clients.

This mans wife is a solicitor and between them them they operate a very good scam.

One day I will stop them.

[Edited by AsifScoob - 1/7/2004 2:23:28 PM]

ProperCharlie

ahh - he had a contract... that must have been where it went wrong. my contract was:

builder "that'll be £xxk mate"
me "oh. ok then, when can you start?"
builder "next week"
me "ok, fine. here's the stuff for making tea etc, and i can recommend the cafe at the end of the street."

i guess to a certain extent you were just unlucky in that you came across the wrong guy. shouldn't the law society do something about his wife, if she is aiding and abetting the scam?

Luke

Guys

I see it day in day out... the worst one now is the Credit card call out mob. They turn up and get you to sign a contract. You must provide credit card details. they then Fukk you about... The contract states its down to them when they finish and how long it takes etc.. seen bills for £1400 for 5 hours work. The guy who did it had his minger of a girlfriend assisting him at full company rates!!! When asked some very simple tech questions he could not even answer them!!!

If you dont know them ,dont use them...

met

i noticed the scoop too, sad. if we are honest male ego has a lot to do with it in terms of not admitting weve been ripped off, i got ripped of on a smaller scale from what seemed to be a reputable driveway firm to the tune of just over £1000, & it would have been very easy to go find them sort them out, but a lot of it came down to me not admitting to myself i had been stitched up, to the extent of almost defending their poor workmanship to my missus, i felt a bit of a failure in front of her indoors to be honest, we all make mistakes & it is important to learn from them i guess. ohh nice leather interior too mate, i suppose we need to see some more pics of this famous car mate, now that you are our first scoobynet TV star

AsifScoob

PC,

You're right, you know so many people were taken in by him. I am sure that Luke would point out how wrong that is and he is right. However, this guy is very clever, he always has an angle, on most situations.

In my case I had alarm bells ringing in my head, but felt reassured that he was offering me a signed contract - surely that would protect me and ensure that he toed the line - completely incorrect.

The burden of proof is on me entirely and all he has to say in a court of law is "it was the other guys fault" etc.

What I hope is in my favour is that there will be 20 plus other people who he will have to argue against.

The Law Society idea is an interesting one, but in my experience of this so far, that the Law of this land being so precise, it would have to have been proved beyond any doubt, in a court of law, before they would act. Anyway I assume it only works with practicing solicitors, his wife is spending all her time being the brains behind this outfit.

Hybwrx, thanks mate, you are right, he does need a good bashing, however it is yours truly who would end up in prison. Police aren't interested in anything unless someone is getting murdered - or speeding! Thanks for the comments also, yes I have a full leather interior, which is always kindly complimented whenever I meet one of the West London Mob or at a Surrey Meet.

Met, thanks mate, you have made me smile a second time. It is so often true with that sort of thing. I got past the admitting it stage a long time ago, but others haven't. Pix of my car have been posted on SN before, I will try to find something suitable from December Surrey Meet when I can sort out how to use Photoshop properly and stick one up.

Dont know about TV star certainly got a laugh from my friends. Im not sure how intentionally that last scene was cut to give it a comic angle, but it worked ok, certainly made the builder look bad.

Regards

Asif

[Edited by AsifScoob - 1/8/2004 8:10:03 AM]

Luke

Asif

You bring a fresh style back to scoobynet..


On the contract front. It realy doesnt matter how good that contract is.. Is they Fukk you and walk away ..I doubt anyone would win in court. You want to read a current "Small works contract" you would laugh.. Its all against the client.

And yes the Police will come down on you if you touch him (Should he report the matter) Also you dont look the type.. (Its a compliment)

I am a "Canadian Mountie" I have always "Got my man" ( some took years but they never knew who did it)

AsifScoob

Luke,

Thanks for the kind words - appreciated.

The contract thing does not surprise me now obviously, but before these events I would never have believed it.

The Police thing does not surprise me that much Im afraid to say, they need an awful lot of convincing. I am in the process of doing so based upon the builders MO being one that he has done this to countless numbers of people, never finished a job etc, therefore deliberately setting out to deceive - its the only real chance that I have.

And you are right about how I look, nice, quiet, decent sort of chap (so im told) but looks can be deceiving.

I've been dealing with this for over a year and a half now and with no signs of leaving it alone.

Myself as part of a small group of others are determined to get this done, criminally and not in the civil courts. The builder already has quite afew CCJ's against him and this has clearly not stopped him.

One of the other guys in the programme, Howard Daly, who was done for £70k is battling with Sheikh in the High Court. They are back in there on the 29th January. I and a few others will be there also. The latest is that the court found against the builder last April and then he appealed. The 29th is the Appeal hearing and decision.

If you feel you have any advice to offer based on all of the above, it will be gratefully received.

Thanks

Asif