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Old 09 December 2003, 03:25 PM
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chinnybloke
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Hello,

I've recently bought some houses/flats to rent out and will have quite a few properties by the summer. I previously only had one flat which has had the same tenant in there for 5 years. He is no problem and he pays on time.

What do you do (not what would you like to do) when someone doesn't pay rent? Do you go down the legal avenues or just get rid of them yourselves?
Old 09 December 2003, 03:34 PM
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Scooby96
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Get your tenants to sign an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement. If you're renting them unfurnished I have a blank agreement in Word format you can have?
Old 09 December 2003, 03:34 PM
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AvalancheS8
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Get some legal advice beforehand and get your lease drawn up by a solicitor. You could find yourself having real difficulties getting them out otherwise.
Old 09 December 2003, 03:40 PM
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You can get landlords insurance to cover any legal costs should you need to evict tenants or sue them for damage to the property. You can't evict tenants for no reason during the period covered by the assured shorthold tenancy, they have to be breaking the terms of the agreement.
Old 09 December 2003, 03:42 PM
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chinnybloke
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Hi,

They all sign AST's, I mean in the circumstances where you give notice for non-payment and they say get lost I ain't getting out, because of the nanny state we live in that gives the freeloaders a free-for-all to rip everyone else off.

Wondered if any of you had sent the heavies in
Old 09 December 2003, 03:43 PM
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Nicks VR4
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Or you can Pay a Leasing Agency to manage them
Any probs they sort it

Dont know what they charge though
Old 09 December 2003, 03:45 PM
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AFAIK you cannot 'get rid of them yourself' if what you mean by that is harrasment or trying to evict them with heavies.

If you have them on a shorthold contract, i *think* after 14 days and they havent paid their rent by the due date, you can apply for eviction from the courts. Or eviction may be granted due to other contractual obligations they may have broken.

Also when you want them to move on after the contract is up you will have to issue them in writing the date you want them out. You have to legally give them at least 2 months notice, the day before or on the day that their rent is normally due.

EG they pay the first of the month and say they were resident now, it would be advisable to give them notice for 29th Feb 2004. Im not sure about the notice for the day before rent is normally due, but im pretty certain 2 whole months have to be given.

Alternatively they have to leave the property once the contract is up, ie. after 6 months if that was how long the contract was, and incedently thats the minimum for a shorthold tenancy agreement. Again its advisable to give them 2 months notice if you want to gain possession.

If both parties want to stay after the contract is up then a new contract doesnt have to be issued, but can follow on from the old one in a rolling fashion.

All the above is IMO and not I assume 100 % accurate. But make sure you have a very good contract drawn up that can cover as many contingencies that may (and will believe me!) crop up, get proper insurance, a good accountant, credit checks/bank statement recored and references, a deposit.

Ive been rent out my properties for over 10 years now, and I think I have seen most things in that time!
Old 09 December 2003, 03:46 PM
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There is no easy answer.

Any amount of agreements drawn up by whoever doesn't stop a bad tenant not paying.

A tenant has the right to remain put until you go down the lengthy court road and then it will cost you.

I actually only had to change the locks once in 6 years which I technically shouldn't have done but it worked, I also got my money.

The rest of the time I just made sure that I gave them the impression that should they not pay then it wouldn't be a good idea. It worked for over a hundred-odd tenants anyway.

Basically it's pot luck on who you get.

Good luck.

Oh, and I'm out of it now!!
Old 09 December 2003, 03:50 PM
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chinnybloke
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Cheers everyone.

Better in property I reckon than a bloody pension.
Old 09 December 2003, 03:52 PM
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Scooby96
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Something like this:

AGREEMENT

For letting unfurnished dwellinghouse on an assured
Shorthold tenancy under Part I of the Housing Act 1988
As amended by Chapter II to Part III of the Housing Act 1996

DATE: xDate lease starts

PARTIES:
(Hereinafter referred to as the Landlord)

TENANT
1st Tenant’s name & address
2nd Tenant’s name & address
(Hereinafter referred to as the Tenant(s))


PROPERTY:



TERM: A term certain of xmonths from xstart date to xend date..


RENT: (subject nevertheless as hereinafter provided) for every month of the term.

PAYABLE Monthly in advance by equal payments. First payment of Ł (xhundred pounds) to be made on the date of entry, namely xstart date and thereafter every calendar month.

1 The Landlord lets and the Tenant takes the Property for the Term at the Rent payable as above


THIS Agreement is intended to create an assured shorthold tenancy as defined in Section 20 of the Housing Act 1988 as amended and the provisions for recovery of possession by the Landlord in Section 21 thereof apply accordingly subject also to the provision of the Housing Act 1996.

WHERE the context admits -
a) "The Landlord" includes the persons for the time being entitled in reversion expectant on the tenancy
b) "The Tenant" includes the persons deriving title under the Tenant
c) References to the Property include references to any part or parts of the Property and to the Fixtures Furniture and effects or any of them.

Old 09 December 2003, 03:53 PM
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AFAIK-you would be able to gain possession under the accelerated procedure if they fell 2 months into arrears with the rent. This would apply whether in the first 6 months or not.

You should NEVER attempt to gain possession using anything other than the legal procedure or you would be commiting a criminal act and could get imprisoned.

Also be aware that during the first 6 months of any tenancy it is extremely difficult to get possession under the mandatory or discretionary grounds. Except of course for non-payment of rent or use of the premises for illegal/immoral purposes.

edited to add: a good letting agent is well worth the 10% or so they charge for full management- it saves you getting those 2 am the water is leaking phone calls for one thing. Plus it adds an extra barrier between you and the tenant which can only be a good thing.



[Edited by NACRO - 12/9/2003 3:54:49 PM]
Old 09 December 2003, 03:54 PM
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scoobynutta555
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mines similar to the above but has 24 clauses
Old 09 December 2003, 03:54 PM
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Chris- Read the original question again and you'll be able to follow the script like the rest of us.
Old 09 December 2003, 03:55 PM
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d) that if the rent is inclusive of council tax and/or water rates, then in the event of there being any increase in the same, the Landlord may increase the rent by an equivalent amount
e) that the Landlord may retain a set of keys for the Property
f) to preserve the Fixtures, Furniture and Effects from being destroyed or damaged and not remove any of them from the Property
g) to yield up the Property at the end of the tenancy in the same clean state and condition as it was in the beginning of the tenancy and make good pay for the repair of or replace all such items of the Fixtures, Furniture and Effects as shall be broken, lost, damaged, or destroyed during the tenancy (reasonable wear and tear and damage by fire storm or tempest excepted)
h) to leave the furniture and effects at the end of the tenancy in the rooms or places in which they were at the beginning of the tenancy
i) to permit the landlord or the Landlord's agents at reasonable hours in the daytime to enter the Property to view the state and condition thereof
j) not to assign sublet or otherwise part with possession of the property without the prior written consent of the Landlord but so that it is hereby agreed that if the Landlord consents to an assignment of the Property such consent may be given subject to the condition that the Tenant will enter into an authorised guarantee agreement with the meaning of the Landlord and Tenant (Covenants) Act 1995
k) not carry on the Property any profession trade or business or let apartments or receive paying guests on the Property or place or exhibit any notice board or notice on the Property or use the Property for any other purpose than that of a strictly private residence.
l) not to do or permit or suffer to be done on the Property any act or thing which shall or may be an annoyance or a nuisance to the Landlord or the occupiers of any adjoining property or which may affect any insurance of the Property against fire or otherwise or increase the ordinary premium for such insurance
m) permit the Landlord or the Landlord's agents at reasonable hours in the daytime within the last 2 months of the tenancy to enter and view the Property with prospective tenants.
n) to pay all costs and expenses (including solicitor's costs) incidental to the preparation and service of any Notice or Notice Requiring Possession to Quit hereunder and any other costs incurred by the Landlord in taking any action for possession of the Property by reason of the Tenant'' breach of covenant notwithstanding that possession may be avoided otherwise than by relief granted by the court
PROVIDED that if the Rent or any instalment or part thereof shall be in arrears for at least fourteen days after the same shall have become due (whether legally demanded or not) or if there shall be a breach of any of the agreements by the Tenant the Landlord may re-enter on the Property (subject always to any statutory restrictions on his power so to do) and immediately thereupon the tenancy shall absolutely determine without prejudice to the other rights and remedies of the Landlord.
o) not to withhold payment of any instalment of rent or any other monies payable under this Agreement on the ground that the Landlord has the deposit monies in his possession or on the ground that the Landlord is or may be in breach of his obligations to the Tenant whether under the terms of this Agreement or imposed by statute or otherwise.






The Landlord hereby agrees with the Tenant as follows:

a) to pay and indemnify the Tenant against all assessments and outgoings in respect of the Property (except charges for the supply of gas or electric light and power or the use of any telephone) to keep the outside of the Property and the roof chimneys drains main walls and main timbers in good repair and condition during the tenancy
b) that the Tenant paying the said rent and observing and performing all his obligations under this agreement may quietly possess and enjoy the Property during the tenancy without any lawful interruption by the Landlord or any person rightfully claiming through or under or in trust for the Landlord
c) to return to the Tenant any rent payable for any period while the Property is rendered uninhabitable by fire the amount in case of dispute to be settled by arbitration.

THIS Agreement shall take effect subject to the provisions of section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 if applicable to the tenancy
When the Landlord or the Tenant for the time being is two or more persons then obligations expressed or implied to be made by that party are deemed to be made by or with such persons jointly and severally.

In addition to the Tenant's obligations in Clause 4 the Tenant will:
a) make good forthwith any damage or injury caused to the Property caused as a result of the actions of the tenant and in particular to replace immediately any broken glass
b) keep the property clean and tidy and in a good state of internal repair.
c) not to paint or decorate the Property in different colours or patterns than as at the date of this Agreement
d) not do anything which may vitiate any insurance of the Property and in particular not to store or bring onto the Property any article substance or liquid of a specially combustible or explosive nature
e) not use or allow the Property to be used for the taking, smoking or inhaling of drugs or other substances or any dealings therein unless prescribed by a doctor
f) take all such precautions as ought reasonably to be taken with a view to avoiding any drains being blocked or water overflowing and likewise with a view to protecting the Property against intruders this includes using the burglar alarm at all timers when the property is empty even if it is only for a very short period of time and making use of all available locks
g) not to share occupation of the Property with any other person or persons except other tenants of the Property
h) not to make or allow any noise between the hours 11pm and 8 am which shall be audible outside the Property
i) not bring or keep animals at the Property
j) to Indemnify the Landlord against all losses damages expenses claims and liabilities incurred by the Landlord and arising directly or indirectly as a result of non-compliance with or non performance of the provisions of this Agreement by the Tenant
k) to pay interest on late Rent as the rate of 4% above Lloyds Bank PLC Base Rate calculated from the date was due to the date of actual payment
l) to notify the Landlord as quickly as is reasonably practicable about any Notice or Order received by the Tenant from any competent authority or service or supply company in relation to the Property and to take all reasonable steps to comply with such Notice or Order except where the compliance with such Notice or Order is the responsibility of the Landlord
m) to not transfer the telephone number of the Property to another address
n) to allow the Landlord or the Landlord's agent and Contractors to carry out maintenance and repair works which are the Landlord's responsibility
o) to return to the Landlord all keys to the Property upon the termination of this Agreement.




If at any time the rent (or any part) is unpaid for 14 days after becoming due (whether or not formally demanded) or if any agreement or obligation on the Tenant's part is not complied with, or if any of the circumstances mentioned in Grounds 8, 10, or 11 to 15 of Part II of Schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988 (as amended) shall arise, then the Landlord may re-enter the Premises and the tenancy shall be determined. This is to be without prejudice to any right of action the Landlord may have in respect of the Tenant'' obligations under this Agreement. This right of re-entry is not to be exercised by the Landlord without a court order when required by the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 (as amended), the Housing Act 1988 (as amended) or other statutory restriction.

The Tenant shall on signing hereof pay the Landlord the sum of Ł1400 (one thousand four hundred pounds) by way of a deposit to set against the cost of any damage to the Property or outstanding sums including unpaid rent and utility bills during the Tenants occupation the balance being returnable to the tenant on leaving the property without interest.
The Landlords address for service of documents pursuant to Section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 shall be the address given in the clause headed "Parties" above
This Agreement shall take effect subject to the provisions of Section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 if applicable to the tenancy

IN WITNESS whereof the parties hereto have hereunto set their hands the day and year first before written


SIGNED SIGNED
Landlord………………………………………… Tenant……………………………………….

Date………………………… Date…………………………..


Witnessed by:……………………………. Witnessed by:……………………….

Print name:………………………………… Print name:……………………………
Occupation:……………………………….. Occupation:……………………………
Address:…………………………………….. Address:……………………………….
……………………………………. ………………………………..

Date Date



[Edited by Scooby96 - 12/9/2003 4:03:00 PM]

[Edited by Scooby96 - 12/9/2003 4:05:13 PM]
Old 09 December 2003, 03:56 PM
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doh!

[Edited by Scooby96 - 12/9/2003 4:01:05 PM]
Old 09 December 2003, 03:57 PM
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Chinny- It may well seem better than a pension but it will require a hell of a lot more work too.

If you are prepared for that, then great.
Old 09 December 2003, 03:57 PM
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doh!

[Edited by Scooby96 - 12/9/2003 4:06:19 PM]
Old 09 December 2003, 03:58 PM
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doh!

[Edited by Scooby96 - 12/9/2003 4:06:32 PM]
Old 09 December 2003, 03:59 PM
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doh!

[Edited by Scooby96 - 12/9/2003 4:06:54 PM]
Old 09 December 2003, 04:00 PM
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doh!

[Edited by Scooby96 - 12/9/2003 4:07:15 PM]
Old 09 December 2003, 04:02 PM
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scoobynutta555
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scooby96

Thats scarily very similar to my contract lol Im guessing that you have taken a 'standard' contract from WHSmiths or somewhere and beefed it up with your own clauses much like I have? I love the little touches in the above contract, it must be persoanl add ons, do tell
Old 09 December 2003, 04:04 PM
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I will repeat, "no amount of writing on paper will help you in this situation if your tenant refuses to leave through non-payment.

You just join the court queue and pay for the privilege, then wait for the wheels to roll.

Old 09 December 2003, 04:09 PM
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TBH if you've taken a hefty deposit (at least 2 months rent) then I dont see a problem unless you're too soft and say, "oh dont worry, pay this months rent next month".

Take 3 months as deposit then you have a month to decide whether to give them the required 2 months notice - if they dont pay keep the deposit sorted
Old 09 December 2003, 04:10 PM
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Yes, but its better to turn up in court with a watertight contract signed by the tenant, rather than something scribbled on the back of an envelope

Gives me peace of mind.

Anyway, what i have found is that the tenant knows where they stand in regards to damage, keys etc etc, and the contract is simplty not a tool for court, but a guideline that the tenant can refer to and know what their responsibilities are. Its saved me untold grief over the years.

Of course a contract isnt a shield to bad tenants but its better to have something than nothing.
Old 09 December 2003, 04:14 PM
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nutta - once bitten, twice shy
Old 09 December 2003, 04:15 PM
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Of course a contract isnt a shield to bad tenants but its better to have something than nothing.
Agreed, but the contract has nothing to do with the original question, that is my point.




Old 09 December 2003, 04:18 PM
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Scooby96
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In reply to the specific question then the legal route is the only way unless you want to end up inside for extortion or somethign similar.

However get an AST in place for all your tenants and you wont have this problem in the first place!
Old 09 December 2003, 04:24 PM
  #28  
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Agreed. The contract advice and the practices that should also be used ie. references, credit checks,insurance, legal insurance etc etc, even though not part of the original question, may be quite a help to the chap in regards to helping to avoid non payers in the first place and covering yourself if the situation arises. Especially since hes going to have more than one property for rent.

Touching wood furiously, I have never had to go to court to evict anybody in over a decade of renting up to 3 properties.
Old 09 December 2003, 04:27 PM
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However get an AST in place for all your tenants and you wont have this problem in the first place!
Chris- That has to be the biggest load of bóllocks on this board yet, well close.

I obviously haven't learned anything then and I bow to your newly aquired landlord status.

p.s. Have you bought them yet?
Old 09 December 2003, 04:54 PM
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I dont currently have any no but I did do this years ago with my parents and we got shafted because they didnt think it was necessary as they knew the tenants - suffice to say the next few I'm buying solely on my own will be watertight in terms of not ever getting shafted again EVER!


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