SAS The Real Story
10 August 2003, 05:17 PM
#2
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Not having been in the forces (wimped out at 18 and decided it wasn't the life I wanted after staying on an RAF base or two) I can not pretend to understand what you have experienced, but from what you are explaining I can see and agree that there are severe problems.
To be honest the bloke I refered to earlier shouldn't have really been allowed in the community, he was violent and very unpredictable, and the train incident was after he had been drinking so he was even more scary! From what I know he lived on his own and was very unstable, in fact I think he might even have been discharged from the SAS and the Army for psychiatric reasons. Yet he was left to just dissapear into society which isn't really the answer, letting a highly trained killer with psychiatric problems back into the community
As for the Paras whats the answer for them when they leave? How do you reincorporate trained killers into society? I dont think counselling is really the answer.
[Edited by ************** - 10/8/2003 8:02:19 PM]
To be honest the bloke I refered to earlier shouldn't have really been allowed in the community, he was violent and very unpredictable, and the train incident was after he had been drinking so he was even more scary! From what I know he lived on his own and was very unstable, in fact I think he might even have been discharged from the SAS and the Army for psychiatric reasons. Yet he was left to just dissapear into society which isn't really the answer, letting a highly trained killer with psychiatric problems back into the community
As for the Paras whats the answer for them when they leave? How do you reincorporate trained killers into society? I dont think counselling is really the answer.
[Edited by ************** - 10/8/2003 8:02:19 PM]
10 September 2003, 12:56 PM
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Again I agree with what you say, dai. However, I think the majority of problems are due to the difference of lifestyle, attitude and mentality that comes with military life, compared to that of the civillian life. What a squaddie perceives to be 'run of the mill', may seem unacceptable to the civvy. Anyway, the Army on the whole, has changed and will continue to do so. Human rights have had a very large impact and very soon, there will be no difference between Army and Civillian way of life. (How the Army will function then, I do not know) Hence my termination of colour service!
I have worked with Fijians too and never saw people change to such a degree than after a beverage or two! Quiet as a lamb until lager, at which point mad and as lairy as a ****house rat!(the guys I was with, anyway)
[Edited by Taff107 - 10/9/2003 1:23:41 PM]
I have worked with Fijians too and never saw people change to such a degree than after a beverage or two! Quiet as a lamb until lager, at which point mad and as lairy as a ****house rat!(the guys I was with, anyway)
[Edited by Taff107 - 10/9/2003 1:23:41 PM]
06 October 2003, 09:47 PM
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Anyone been watching it? Very interesting series of 4 programmes covering the birth of the unit in the desert of the 2nd World War to the current role and status of the unit.
Just wished I had videoed all 4 episodes
The Gilbralter episode was brought up in tonights programme and I'm still astounded now to think that anyone could possibly think the SAS were wrong in what they did in Gibralter.
Do these people know what the IRA were responsible for? Do they really think the terrorists had any rights? They were damn right to shoot them dead. Feking do gooders saying it was terrible state sponsored murder [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
The SAS are the ultimate military unit across the world and I just find it unbelievable that anyone except terrorist supporters can slate them for what they have done for this country and given their lives fighting terrorism and wars.
Anyone video all 4 episodes? Anyone know if you can request these programmes from the broadcaster, in this case Ch4?
Just wished I had videoed all 4 episodes
The Gilbralter episode was brought up in tonights programme and I'm still astounded now to think that anyone could possibly think the SAS were wrong in what they did in Gibralter.
Do these people know what the IRA were responsible for? Do they really think the terrorists had any rights? They were damn right to shoot them dead. Feking do gooders saying it was terrible state sponsored murder [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
The SAS are the ultimate military unit across the world and I just find it unbelievable that anyone except terrorist supporters can slate them for what they have done for this country and given their lives fighting terrorism and wars.
Anyone video all 4 episodes? Anyone know if you can request these programmes from the broadcaster, in this case Ch4?
06 October 2003, 10:30 PM
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Even better if somebody has a Tivo unit and can upload the programmes on to the net! 
Anybody?
A uni mate of mine is from Herefordshire and had quite a few tales to tell - some, I'm sure, shouldn't be public knowledge!
Anybody?
A uni mate of mine is from Herefordshire and had quite a few tales to tell - some, I'm sure, shouldn't be public knowledge!
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07 October 2003, 08:18 AM
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Very good programme ......I think they will go back underground again to get away from the public and media eye.
The only thing we would have heard of it then would have been ''Two men and a women murdered in Gib'' ..... and thats the way it should be IMHO.
The only thing we would have heard of it then would have been ''Two men and a women murdered in Gib'' ..... and thats the way it should be IMHO.
07 October 2003, 09:40 AM
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Very good programme ......I think they will go back underground again to get away from the public and media eye.
The only thing we would have heard of it then would have been ''Two men and a women murdered in Gib'' ..... and thats the way it should be IMHO.
The only thing we would have heard of it then would have been ''Two men and a women murdered in Gib'' ..... and thats the way it should be IMHO.
I think this was even suggested at last night.
To see those guys fighting the gun battle in Afghanistan was amazing! And then to see the carnage that they'd left...
Also, only two of them going out to sort out 'The West Side Boys' - you wouldn't have thought they'd of had a chance!
Next shot: scores of TWB tied up, sitting there not knowing what'd hit them!
07 October 2003, 10:30 AM
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They have effectively gone underground already. The programme basically admitted that. There are units used that are not officially British Military, more non uniformed units of hired experts. They are no longer part of the SAS but are made up of ex members of the SAS and other special forces.
They are back to the old ways of being totally deniable if anything goes wrong, something that the current SAS no longer has due to their publicity.
If these unofficial units don't have a name then how can they be publicsed and documented? They can't. Just what the Government want and need, something that they wanted from the SAS but success and a name allowed that to be ruined.
The video shown of the battle at the prison camp in Afghanistan was incredible, they didn't even realise they were being filmed they were so immersed in what they were doing. The attack was relentless. Typical Amnesty International to then step in say why have all these prisoners been killed and start calling for heads to roll including those of the SAS! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] What the fek do Amnesty International think was going on there ffs, the prisoners had taken over the camp and no one was supposed to try and take it back? Yeah the Taleban prisoners were so innocent
Makes Amnesty International as bad as the enemy themselves if they are going to stick up for them [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Thing is it wouldn't have happened if the bloody CIA bloke hadn't threatened to murder one of the prisoners in full view of everyone by holding a pistol to his temple. Bloody Americans
If anyone has the full series on tape please let me know.
They are back to the old ways of being totally deniable if anything goes wrong, something that the current SAS no longer has due to their publicity.
If these unofficial units don't have a name then how can they be publicsed and documented? They can't. Just what the Government want and need, something that they wanted from the SAS but success and a name allowed that to be ruined.
The video shown of the battle at the prison camp in Afghanistan was incredible, they didn't even realise they were being filmed they were so immersed in what they were doing. The attack was relentless. Typical Amnesty International to then step in say why have all these prisoners been killed and start calling for heads to roll including those of the SAS! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] What the fek do Amnesty International think was going on there ffs, the prisoners had taken over the camp and no one was supposed to try and take it back? Yeah the Taleban prisoners were so innocent
Makes Amnesty International as bad as the enemy themselves if they are going to stick up for them [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]Thing is it wouldn't have happened if the bloody CIA bloke hadn't threatened to murder one of the prisoners in full view of everyone by holding a pistol to his temple. Bloody Americans
If anyone has the full series on tape please let me know.
07 October 2003, 11:55 AM
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"Thing is it wouldn't have happened if the bloody CIA bloke hadn't threatened to murder one of the prisoners in full view of everyone by holding a pistol to his temple."
Bravo, do you think that was the reason that the Taliban prisoners revolted? They used to live with executions as a regular occurrence.
IMHO, I only saw two episodes of that series - the one last night and I think it was the one last week (Interrogation / Escape and evasion) and it seemed to be more television dramatism than anything else. For example on last weeks, they return to their RV to await extraction and they sit about eating etc. Even a 6 week recruit in the Green Army wouldn't do that.
Bravo, do you think that was the reason that the Taliban prisoners revolted? They used to live with executions as a regular occurrence.
IMHO, I only saw two episodes of that series - the one last night and I think it was the one last week (Interrogation / Escape and evasion) and it seemed to be more television dramatism than anything else. For example on last weeks, they return to their RV to await extraction and they sit about eating etc. Even a 6 week recruit in the Green Army wouldn't do that.
07 October 2003, 12:35 PM
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Taff, this was reported at the time, not just on last nights programme about that event. It was reported as being the reason that kicked off the prisoners into taking over the camp. Only the people who were there really know what happened but the story is that the CIA bloke had the prisoner on his knees with a gun to his temple interrogating him in front of everyone. Not something, if its true, that would be normal practice I would say.
I wouldnt say it was over dramatised just due to the interviews given by the ex members of the SAS.
The one you are reffering to isnt the one that was on Sunday last week are you? I saw that as well and was a totally different programme, had the ex SAS bloke from the Are You Tough Enough series. It was all about escape and evasion tactics too and they went through different scenarios, one of which was the one where they were sitting eating waiting for extraction. After that they then went onto say this would never happen and gave all the reasons why that behaviour would give them away to the enemy etc. It covered many different aspects, including the right and wrong things to do.
[Edited by ************** - 10/7/2003 12:44:53 PM]
I wouldnt say it was over dramatised just due to the interviews given by the ex members of the SAS.
The one you are reffering to isnt the one that was on Sunday last week are you? I saw that as well and was a totally different programme, had the ex SAS bloke from the Are You Tough Enough series. It was all about escape and evasion tactics too and they went through different scenarios, one of which was the one where they were sitting eating waiting for extraction. After that they then went onto say this would never happen and gave all the reasons why that behaviour would give them away to the enemy etc. It covered many different aspects, including the right and wrong things to do.
[Edited by ************** - 10/7/2003 12:44:53 PM]
07 October 2003, 12:55 PM
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Yeah thats what I thought, and that WAS over dramatised and a load of cr@p in my opinion. I have heard that fellow ex members have criticised that bloke who also did the Are You Tough Enough series as most of the stuff is total rubbish in terms of what they do.
07 October 2003, 05:37 PM
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Oops,....sorry Bravo! You're right. The crap one has that bloke Eddie Stone in it. I know a couple of chaps who have served and are serving now and I would believe them before any of the cack that goes into these telly shows / supposed factual accounts such as Bravo two zero / The one that got away etc.
I think that there is also an element of hype surrounding the SAS too. OK, before I get slated, let me state that they are without doubt, very highly discplined,trained, adaptable and skilled soldiers. However, I believe that the combination of their training, weaponry and their virtually unlimited budget to fund all of the above is bound to produce results when it comes down to it.
I think that there is also an element of hype surrounding the SAS too. OK, before I get slated, let me state that they are without doubt, very highly discplined,trained, adaptable and skilled soldiers. However, I believe that the combination of their training, weaponry and their virtually unlimited budget to fund all of the above is bound to produce results when it comes down to it.
07 October 2003, 05:41 PM
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The SAS are the ultimate military unit
07 October 2003, 05:45 PM
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Yeah but I think there was a massive difference between the cr@p the BBC spewed out and the Ch4 series. The Ch4 series had many interviews with ex members from all generations of the unit and it was far more factual. It was basically a history of the unit covering some of their most memorable and publicised missions.
I just don't understand why Eddie Stone would associate himself with the BBC making such rubbish about the SAS. No wonder he has received so much criticism, sold out I think is the phrase! Mind you I wouldn't want to tell him to his face, he comes across as a bit of a hard Scot
I just don't understand why Eddie Stone would associate himself with the BBC making such rubbish about the SAS. No wonder he has received so much criticism, sold out I think is the phrase! Mind you I wouldn't want to tell him to his face, he comes across as a bit of a hard Scot
08 October 2003, 12:33 PM
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IMHO they usually only put the sh1te on the tele, it's just eye candy and boom bang for the masses.
As for the true story ever being told, not by any trooper with pride in the regiment it wont, serving or not.
As for the Gib take down, nothing that wasn't done elsewhere without any fuss or malarkey. Nobody says a word when the same is done in a field in County Armagh, or a house in Whiterock. A Vol is a Vol, armed or not. They wouldn't hesitate to shot an unarmed soldier in civvies in a bar in Belfast, or even blow there car up in Germany. That's not a criticism, it was the nature of the conflict, and we all understood the rules of engagement.
The fire fight in Afgahnistan was just how most soldiers are trained to fight. You don't fire your weapon to shoot a gun out for some ones hand or wound them. The only objective in firing your weapon at someone is to kill them, nothing else matters.
When placed in a situation where your life is under threat, you are trained to bring as much force to bear thats is required to do the job, simple.
As for the SAS being the ultimate fighting unit. Well the only people who get through selection are the ones with the overwhelming desire to be the best soldier, in the best regiment, in the best professional army in the world. The SBS are the same level of professionalism, but there training differs from the SAS because they are from a different service, the Navy, and therefor trained to operate in different scenarios.
As for the true story ever being told, not by any trooper with pride in the regiment it wont, serving or not.
As for the Gib take down, nothing that wasn't done elsewhere without any fuss or malarkey. Nobody says a word when the same is done in a field in County Armagh, or a house in Whiterock. A Vol is a Vol, armed or not. They wouldn't hesitate to shot an unarmed soldier in civvies in a bar in Belfast, or even blow there car up in Germany. That's not a criticism, it was the nature of the conflict, and we all understood the rules of engagement.
The fire fight in Afgahnistan was just how most soldiers are trained to fight. You don't fire your weapon to shoot a gun out for some ones hand or wound them. The only objective in firing your weapon at someone is to kill them, nothing else matters.
When placed in a situation where your life is under threat, you are trained to bring as much force to bear thats is required to do the job, simple.
As for the SAS being the ultimate fighting unit. Well the only people who get through selection are the ones with the overwhelming desire to be the best soldier, in the best regiment, in the best professional army in the world. The SBS are the same level of professionalism, but there training differs from the SAS because they are from a different service, the Navy, and therefor trained to operate in different scenarios.