Turbohot

Does not signing the document really work?Bacause l egal requirement is,to provide your full name,address and D.O.B.,not signing it(apparently!).

:Mike:

Read the form carefully. They may have updated it.
The loophole before was that it didn't say on the form that you had to sign it, so you could choose not to.
If it says you do, I guess that means you do....

Boro

iTrader: (1)

As far as im aware, there is no legal right for the document to be signed. Your legal requirement is to provide information. CPS cannot use the NIP as evidence because it isnt signed and the police cant MAKE you sign it.

They CAN ask you and they may do, but it is your legal right to say no. This was information posted on popular "speed trap" website. I'll try and find the story and post it here.

NotoriousREV

Try to hang fire for a while (you have 28 days) as an important decision is due any day now that will once and for all clear up this issue one way or another.

The legal belief currently is that you must provide the information, however a signature is not information.

This has saved 6 points in my household this year.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

REV, Im with you, theres a decision due on (Dwight) Yorke and Maudsley any day now, in which case IMHO I would hurry up and submit it before that decision is made, you can always argue that you submitted the form with case law satisfied at date of submission...
Just cos the police write *sign it* on the new forms does not make it law, the police are enforcers of the law not makers of it, that is the function of parliament.
our household 3 pts to the good due to this Lacuna, but we used it as a lesson not an excuse to go at it again.

[Edited by Peanuts - 7/24/2003 11:54:59 AM]

[Edited by Peanuts - 7/24/2003 11:55:48 AM]

NotoriousREV

Peanuts, the decision won't change the law itself, only cement the interpretation of it. If you submit now and they decide that the current law does mean you have to sign the form, you're liable to be prosecuted for failure to provide information. If you can't wait, don't sign it, if you can wait it makes sense to do so.

If they do decide the lacuna exists, then get in quick because they'll try and close it quickly (although that reopens the Human Rights issue)

[Edited by NotoriousREV - 7/24/2003 11:59:10 AM]

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

REV, good point <retraction of previous advive in above post>

listen to the man, hang on to it...

Chrisgr31

Yup, my understanding is that the law does not state that the NIP must be signed, and even if the form says it must be signed thats irrelevant if its not a legal requirement.

My understanding also is that requiring signing the form opens up human rights issues and therefore the government might struggle to move the goalposts if they lose the current case.

SpanishScooby

Sorry to be the bearer of sh*tty news, but not signing the speeding ticket doesn't get you off the 3 points. In many cases, if the speeding offence is contested and it ends up in a magistrates court (usually does) - the magistrate bones you with a heavier fine if the officer says you refused to sign.

john_s

iTrader: (1)

As far as i understand, there is still no legal requirement to sign the form. However, the Lancashire dibbles are insisting that there is a legal requirement to sign under the road traffic act on a list of questions that they send out with the speed tax forms.

John.

NotoriousREV

SpanishScooby,

What you say is not correct. The lacuna that exists is that you are not legally required to sign the form, however you are legally required to give the information asked for on the form. However, without a signature the document is not admissable as court evidence. So unless you admit to driving the car at the time of the offence (and you are under no obligation to give evidence) you can not be prosecuted for it (other evidence notwithstanding i.e. clear photo of you behind the wheel). On the other hand, as long as you have provided the details required by the appropriate Road Traffic Act (which does not include a signature) you can not be prosecuted for failing to provide the information.

Case dismissed. NEXT!

Turbohot

Right no clear answer on this one then mmmmmm.... **** it not Signing got 2 fines now b@stards Im sure that my car is being targeted! same road right on 40 into 30 and a 60 into 30 hiding right by the signs both times road safty my ar$e!!!!!!!

I have drove on the same road for 3 years never got done untill I got the scoob not changed my driving style that much green eyed copper me thinks!
http://www.speedcam.co.uk/index2.htm check out some payback!

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/unsigned.html

If they force you to sign it, it is in violation of your human rights or something. Basically you are signing it under duress, which is totally against the law. If a police officer forced you to admit guilt to anything else, someone would be in trouble...or they should be.