Nowucme

Hello,

Got caught doing 82 in a 50 zone - no excuses.

Am I best pleading guilty by post (including written details of any mitigating circumstances and a letter from boss to say I need car for my job) or should I go to court?

Anybody know what is best? I'd prefer not to go to court as it seems an unnecessary waste of everyones time.

What's your thoughts?

Cheers

Robin

tiggers

Two years ago I got a summons for 98 on the motorway and on speaking to a recommended solicitor he said if you're 20mph above the limit it's probably best going to court as the magistrates like to see that you take it seriously. Sometimes this depends on the locality and the reputation of the magistrates in that area, but at 82 in a 50 you're probably best going in person.

Don't be afraid of the court process - it's very simple and to be honest if you've got half a brain you'll be the brightest person there including the magistrates ;-)

Dress well, be polite and state your case logically and clearly - with any luck you'll get the average number of points and a fine although the exact outcome will depend on the how the magistrates are feeling that particular day - yes the justice system (sic) in this country really is that crazy.

My case got completely screwed as they lost all my paperwork and had me down as failing to reply to the summons - it got quite heated, but eventually I got them to aplogise to me and they reduced the 8 points and large fine to 5 and a smaller fine. I actually ended up quite enjoying the whole experience as making them squirm about their ineptitude was quite fun.

The best bit was when I tried to pay the fine at the courthouse on the day - they said no one ever did that and hence they had closed the payment office. I referred them to the summons which clearly indicated I had the right to pay at the courthouse on the day of the hearing - they had to send someone out to another building to find a payment book etc. Hahaha!

Anyway I'm rambling - good luck.

Regards,

tiggers.

Pilot Dan

Couple of pointers as my mother is a JP.

Turn up, wear a suit, read a prepared statement saying how long you have been driving etc and that you need your car to get around, and, a little sneaky, sign on to your local advanced driving instructor before you go. Take the letter with you and say that you have signed on to improve your driving so that it wont happen again. These factors are all looked at when issuing fines and points and it usually lowers both.

A little known way of ensuring a reduced fine / points is to ignore the letters in the first place.

The first letter you will get is a letter asking who was driving the car. If you ignore this i.e. dont send it back, you will be served with whats called a section 172. This is basically a failure to supply the identity of the driver of the car.

Now the best bit....

A section 172 offence carries a maximum fine of £220 (varies slightly across the country) and maximum points of 3 !

So if you have been done by a camera at 80+ mph I would use this 'defence', otherwise you could risk an earnings related fine and enough points to make your insurance premiums rocket, plus if you are a totter (i.e. adding points up) it could save your licence. Oh and theres nothing they can do about it as they cant force you to tell them !

Interesting isnt it.

D.

SCOOBY TOWERS

iTrader: (7)

Wear a suit - That's a good un

My mate was up for D&D so he put his best clobber on for the court appearence, £300 fine £25 costs.
****** next to him in track suit etc got £50 fine £25 costs for the same offense.

Wear your painting & decorating clobber and plead poverty

si325i

have to remember 172.

Gridlock Mikey

I was advised NOT to goto court as they cannot issue POINTS in your abscence I got £350 fine but no points

65mph in a 30 (Loads of reasons why honest!)

Mikey

si325i

think thats wrong, i've got point b4. and did not go to court. not for speeding thou.

Si.

Gridlock Mikey

Didn't say it was right or wrong, I was advised it and that's what happened to me. Apparently you have to accept your points but not your fine. If you are not there to defend yourself, how can they issue them? In my case I think they discussed calling me again decided it was a waste of time and gave me a eff off fine instead. Still learnt my lesson, I don't see it as a victory at all, just usefull if you have no room left on your licence for points.

Mikey

si325i

sounds good to me, pay a bigger fine get no points, get cheap insurance. must of worked out cheaper in the long run getting nil pionts.

Si

that would never happen to me, lucky? i had a plastic flower that died.

Pilot Dan

Unfortunately you can have points issued to you, even in your absence, and you certainly dont have to accept them to get them ! Shame !

Also magistrates use a little book which is issued nationally to help standardise sentencing. It is a general rule that if you dont bother to show up for a serious offence, i.e. 20 mph above the limit, you will get the top whack, plus income related fine, unless you can come up with a very good excuse for not being there.

They like to see people who appear genuinely sorry for what they have done, and are more likely to be lenient if you make an appearance.

The guy in the shell suit probably was unemployed or earns very little so got a smaller fine, however it is also possible that he previous outstanding court debts which he was still paying off at say 50p a week out of his dole money.... £300 D&D is pretty toppy too....

Remember this can all be avoided by ignoring the initial letter asking who was driving..... see above

D.

MichelleWRX1994

Aye, the 172 thing is fantastic which gives you an MS90. No matter how much I argued my case that I had declared a driver on the NIP, it still went through.

This affects your insurance badly and most hire companies will not let you hire a car. I wouldn't recommend that route unless you are facing a ban.

On another one, I got 3 points and a 252UKP fine for 98 on the motorway, I guess they were feeling lenient towards me and realised I was a muppet with a lost cause.

Still, lesson learnt and speeds are respectable.

Forgot to add that I recommend you going to court and not pleading by post for reasons stated above.

[Edited by MichelleWRX1994 - 5/29/2003 1:41:31 PM]

Nowucme

Interesting stuff here!

Dan - I think your idea of going to court stacks up and is what I'm gonna have to do. Not so sure about ignoring the NIP in the first place though - posted on here when I got it and got a mixed response, I bottled it and signed the thing in the end.

Mikey - sounds like you were pretty lucky - well done!

Saw on one web site (can't remember which) that anything over 30mph is automatically 6 points and then its at the courts discression as to what you get on top of that.

MrShades

All interesting comments above - turn up or not, suit or scruffs.... ???

All I can offer is my experiences.

Been seriously had for speeding twice.

Both times were (stupidly) on the same stretch of dead straight road (Sedgeberrow by-pass if anyone is from the Evesham area) the first in the early hours of the morning, and the second on a Sunday afternoon in gloriously sunny weather.

1st instance - summonsed for 100mph in a 60. Opted to go to court - wore Hugo Boss suit, best gear, polished shoes. Stood at the back with a line of scruffy yobs - in jeans, t-shirts and worse. The others all had very dodgy and serious cases (such as driving with no insurance, no MOT and no licence - failing to produce, no MOT, no insurance, etc.) - mine was a simple speeding, in the dead of night on a dead straight road with no-one else around. The scruffs got low points, low fines, reduced costs and payment terms. I got points, banned (for a month - helped by a serious letter from my employer), larger fine, standard costs and had to pay in one lump. In addition to this, had lecture from JP - which was virtually the same as being told off by the headmaster as a school kid and generally a crap experience.

2nd instance - 92mph in same 60 limit. 30 over the limit so had to go to court. Got summons through, couldn't be arsed with all the messing about again and just pleased guilty by post. Got 6 points, reasonable fine and no ban. Best bit - no stupid lecture from a JP, and all that 'stand up, sit down' rubbish that you have to go through...

You MUST BE PRESENT if they are to ban you. Therefore, if you are borderline and not present you may get away with more points and no ban. However, if they have to drag you back in to ban you, they typically don't look favourably on wasting the courts time with two appearances and will probably hit you with a longer ban.

I'd avoid the humiliation and plead guilt by post - but if you do opt to turn up, just go in jeans and shirt, but don't pick the best designer gear and try not to look affluent. Look skint!

Shades

MichelleWRX1994

My first court appearance I couldn't attend due to a holiday booked to go to Seattle - I wrote and told them explaining about non-refundable ticket and such.
Court date was re-booked and funnily enough I had a second holiday booked to go to Seattle - I thought they might think I was taking the pee, so I sent off proof of holiday and such.
Court date was re-booked and I managed to get time off work to attend....person who was taking me up broke down and I couldn't attend.
I rang them straight up, apologised for the inconvenience, said I wanted to plead guilty and say I was sorry, etc, etc and that I had mitigating circumstances balh, blah.

I think they were so naffed off with resetting the date that they just picked a random allocation of points and fine for me. Needless to say I was relieved when it was only 3 points and 252 fine as I was expecting more!!!!!

RSCUP200

Any advice for someone caught doing 140mph on motorway - coppor stopped me in unmarked car - on his own, never showed me my average speed or computer recording equipment - officially charged me with excessive speed and dangerous driving (for undertaking 1 car) Kinda having a crap time worrying about this now - it was over 2 months ago and still no summons? Need car for work and all that etc / made me a better driver though
Cheers

si325i

that's a joke "wasting the courts time". I paid for it. 35 quid

bluenosewrx

iTrader: (2)

rs cup- i think they have to you a nip within two weeks,also have to have video and recording equipment running all the time .just dont sign the nip if it comes.there is a thread about it i read yesterday somewhere,best of luck anyway

Judge

Wee technicality which has recently been exposed in the press is that when sent the 172 letter requiring you to nominate the driver of the car at the time of the speeding offence must be complied with in so much as you must do so truthfully...however...the form also has a box for you to put your signature in at the bottom of the form to act as official confirmation of your completing the form. Legally you are compelled to provide the information pertaining to the driver but you are not compelled to SIGN any document.It is a point of law that any document presented to a court must be authenticated (Signed) in order for it to be admissable as evidence.As this document is the foundation of the case the case falls.This is a legal loophole which will not remain in place too much longer as the courts are being plagued with this.

Alternatively you could just sign it and take the fine/points.

I am not advising you to do this,just making you aware of what I read! (PS Im not a real judge!)

Cheers mate

MrShades

I was in this position, and started counting the days - as they have 3 months to issue the summons (the two week thing is only for speeding offences that are caught on camera, or such, and hence you are not cautioned and advised of the intended prosecution in person by a police officer).

Rest assured, my summons arrived a few days inside the 3 month window.

If it's comfortably over 3 months, then you're OK. But if they put it in the post within 3 months, even if it took a week or so to get to you, then you're nicked....

Shades

tiggers

I think, but I may be mistaken that they have 6 months to issue the summons - sorry if I'm wrong.

I think mine from 2 years ago was just over the three month mark.

As for 140mph - you're going to have to pray that you get lucky if it goes to court, it's the dangerous driving charge that could cause you the most probs. If summonsed seek out and find a real good solicitor as it could make the difference.

Regards,

tiggers.

MichelleWRX1994

Check out your query here as this site is run by police officers.

An NIP can be written or verbal AFAIK, they have 6 months thereafter to take you to court if they so wish. I am not 100% on that though.

si325i

some one told me if your pay the fine by post (cheque) and put £1 extra on the amount the computer that deals with it cant handle it, sends you your £1 back. but if you dont cash it you dont get your points, this too could be wrong?
Si.

Nowucme

Anyone else got court experiences?

Think I'll take an average of the experiences here and plump for the best route!!