Am I looking at a ban?!?!?
14 May 2003, 03:10 PM
#1
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Had a letter through the post this morning from the boys in blue... been caught speeding... D'OH!!!
The worrying thing is it states that I was doing 74 in a 30 limit!!!
The stretch of road they clocked me on is in the middle of nowhere, repeated national speed limit signs only and no streetlights either (which usually indicate a 30mph limit). Middle of the day, dry, sunny, no other traffic on the road.
What do you guys reckon, am I looking at a ban? Would the fact that I'm a single parent sway any judges decision?.. need the car for school runs, work etc.
Any help/suggestions would be welcome.
Cheers.
The worrying thing is it states that I was doing 74 in a 30 limit!!!
The stretch of road they clocked me on is in the middle of nowhere, repeated national speed limit signs only and no streetlights either (which usually indicate a 30mph limit). Middle of the day, dry, sunny, no other traffic on the road.
What do you guys reckon, am I looking at a ban? Would the fact that I'm a single parent sway any judges decision?.. need the car for school runs, work etc.
Any help/suggestions would be welcome.
Cheers.
to your license for a while 
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14 May 2003, 04:52 PM
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Have you looked at www.speed-trap.co.uk or similar? At least one of these sites has got all kinds of ways of wheadling one's way out of prosecution.
i) If it was a Gatso or speedtrap camera. Get the Police to send you the photo.
ii) Re-visit the scene and take your own photos. Take a notepad and make notes of anything pertinent (lamp-posts, speed limit signs, repeaters etc).
I don't know if there are law firms specialising in this type of case but it might be wise to ask around.
Vindaloo.
i) If it was a Gatso or speedtrap camera. Get the Police to send you the photo.
ii) Re-visit the scene and take your own photos. Take a notepad and make notes of anything pertinent (lamp-posts, speed limit signs, repeaters etc).
I don't know if there are law firms specialising in this type of case but it might be wise to ask around.
Vindaloo.
14 May 2003, 04:58 PM
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If you've not signed the NIP then don't
http://www.pepipoo.com/Section_172_loophole.htm
Also don't expect much sympathy for 74 in a 30
http://www.pepipoo.com/Section_172_loophole.htm
Also don't expect much sympathy for 74 in a 30
14 May 2003, 05:10 PM
#12
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maybe o/t but like this 74 in a 30 zone malarki, some fella in a HGV was ''caught doing 96 in a 30 zone'', which we all know is impossible because
a) no ones that crazy
b) his tacho read 28
c) HGVs are limited to 58 or summat like that.
in Derbs this year
maybe this is what happened to you.
a) no ones that crazy
b) his tacho read 28
c) HGVs are limited to 58 or summat like that.
in Derbs this year
maybe this is what happened to you.
14 May 2003, 05:18 PM
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Nah, I was probably doing the speed they say, but I really am convinced that it's not a 30 limit. I've had someone check out the road today and there is only national speed limit signs and the road has no streetlights... there aren't even any pavements along it.
Cheers for all your help guys.
I'm getting in touch with a solicitor in the morning to see what they suggest.
Fingers crossed.
Cheers for all your help guys.
I'm getting in touch with a solicitor in the morning to see what they suggest.
Fingers crossed.
16 May 2003, 01:19 PM
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If there are national speed limit repeater signs then it could not have been a 30 limit of course. They usually dont have repeaters for national limit if there are no streetlights, no need to say it twice. Hope it turns out right for you anyway.
Les
Les
16 May 2003, 04:36 PM
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A 30mph road is what is termed as a "restricted road", and for the road to be correctally classed as a restricted road it MUST have streetlights every 200yds or less. If this was not the case then you cannot be prosecuted I'd say...
Basically by law the road cannot have a 30mph speed limit, and if the limit is unlawfully enforced you cannot be prosecuted.
My money is on you getting off with the speeding if it was a 30 zone...
EDIT **** But you won't get off if you don't contest it, seek legal advice! ****
Tim
[Edited by timrud - 5/16/2003 4:38:54 PM]
Basically by law the road cannot have a 30mph speed limit, and if the limit is unlawfully enforced you cannot be prosecuted.
My money is on you getting off with the speeding if it was a 30 zone...
EDIT **** But you won't get off if you don't contest it, seek legal advice! ****
Tim
[Edited by timrud - 5/16/2003 4:38:54 PM]
16 May 2003, 04:40 PM
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From the sounds of it it was missing the 30 signs aswell, be carefull with the identifying driver thing, I refuesed and ended up with a £300 fine and 3 points. I thought the points wernt too bad until I told my insurers turns out because its an MS conviction code it bangs up my insurance.
Should have taken the £60 and SP30
Should have taken the £60 and SP30
17 May 2003, 08:36 PM
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I'm pretty sure that a road can have a speed limit without the lamp posts but it must then have repeaters for the actual speed limit at what they say is reasonable intervals.
Les
Les
17 May 2003, 09:59 PM
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There is some useful info regarding speed limit signs at http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm
mb
mb
19 May 2003, 08:04 AM
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Went back to check out the road again last night and take some more pics. The only speed signs are one National speed limit and one repeater in over seven miles of road. Don't remember seeing a van parked anywhere, but there are a couple of laybys, so I guess they must've been parked up in one them.
Have a solicitor involved already. Will let you know how I get on.
Thanks for all your comments and support guys.
Have a solicitor involved already. Will let you know how I get on.
Thanks for all your comments and support guys.
19 May 2003, 04:47 PM
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The Magistrates Court Association Guidelines on Sentencing suggest as a starting point a ban for speeds in excess of 30mph above the speed limit in force. That is the starting point, but mitigation such as yours may reduce it.
Firstly, if you were doing 74mph, you have no actual 'defence' to the charge of speeding as you were going over the limit in any event. However, if you can prove on the balance of probabilities that you thought it was a 30mph zone and that there was nothing on the road (such as a sign) which would indicate otherwise, then that is positive mitigation and the Magistrates should sentence you as if you were doing 74mph in a 70mph zone. If this does happen, then you should not have to pay any more costs/fine than you would for a standard speeding ticket. You, unfortunately, have to prove this (that's the reality of the Mags Court). Also, get info on the time, state of the road, reason you were going fast and any exceptional hardship you would suffer from being banned. Usually, kids are not considered exceptional but in all the circumstances, you may be lucky. If you need any further advice, please ask. I don't check my email that often, to be fair! You should ask the police to inform you as to why that area is a 30mph zone as opposed to the rest of the area and where the signs for that are indicated. Bear in mind that you may want to check for yourself first, because they may simply go and put one up to trap you.
Firstly, if you were doing 74mph, you have no actual 'defence' to the charge of speeding as you were going over the limit in any event. However, if you can prove on the balance of probabilities that you thought it was a 30mph zone and that there was nothing on the road (such as a sign) which would indicate otherwise, then that is positive mitigation and the Magistrates should sentence you as if you were doing 74mph in a 70mph zone. If this does happen, then you should not have to pay any more costs/fine than you would for a standard speeding ticket. You, unfortunately, have to prove this (that's the reality of the Mags Court). Also, get info on the time, state of the road, reason you were going fast and any exceptional hardship you would suffer from being banned. Usually, kids are not considered exceptional but in all the circumstances, you may be lucky. If you need any further advice, please ask. I don't check my email that often, to be fair! You should ask the police to inform you as to why that area is a 30mph zone as opposed to the rest of the area and where the signs for that are indicated. Bear in mind that you may want to check for yourself first, because they may simply go and put one up to trap you.
19 May 2003, 04:58 PM
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With regard to HHJ Ticehurst's decision in Pickford bear in mind the following:
(a) A Crown Court decision is NOT binding on other Magistrate's Courts so they can happily ignore it; and
(b) That decision may well be appealed to a higher court and although I can see the force in the argument about it not being desirable to 'force' people to make witness statements, I'm not sure that it will pass the test set by the Prive Council in Brown about the Margin of Appreciation.
In short - don't start celebrating yet. Fine, don't sign it because you can always claim you forgot, but you'll still be charged with speeding and an offence under s.12.
(a) A Crown Court decision is NOT binding on other Magistrate's Courts so they can happily ignore it; and
(b) That decision may well be appealed to a higher court and although I can see the force in the argument about it not being desirable to 'force' people to make witness statements, I'm not sure that it will pass the test set by the Prive Council in Brown about the Margin of Appreciation.
In short - don't start celebrating yet. Fine, don't sign it because you can always claim you forgot, but you'll still be charged with speeding and an offence under s.12.
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