Fast_Blue_Scooby

I need some advice, I bought something expensive for the car last week, I had enough money to cover it in my joint account. However due to a **** up by the company involved, the amount was taken out twice despite their assurances that they had not done so. They told me at the time, that they had put my debit card through the machine twice due to it apparently not working the first time. I only signed for the one amount though, so I only authorised for one lot to be taken out. They assured me that only one amount would go through!

However after a chat with my bank today, they confirmed that this amount had been taken out by this company twice! So I got back on the phone and after a heated debate, of which they denied that it could have happened, they eventually phoned up their bank and hey presto the amount had been taken out twice. So they refunded me for the extra amount back onto my debit card.

However the problem remains is that by taking out this amount for a second time, I went well overdrawn on an account that I do not have an agreed overdraft amount on, I never need to be overdrawn, hence no overdraft facility. The bank informed me that I will be subject to a lot of charges as not only do I get billed for allowing by debit card to be used resulting in a negative amount, but I will be subject to all my direct debits that have been rejected and so the list goes on. Basically we are looking at upwards of £100 charges!!!

But even worse is that my wife went to use her debit card on the joint account and found out that she couldn't use it. So you can imagine her wrath!!! I did by the way get permission from her to spend this amount on the car but at first she thought I had spent twice as much!!! So you can imagine!!

I have written a letter to this company demanding any charges to be paid by them, also as my account has been suspended for the last 3 days as well as today and tomorrow until the refund goes in, a level of compensation which I think is warranted in this case.

But I thought I would ask on here, where do I legally stand? When I was on the phone to this company they were very defensive about paying any bank charges but at the end of the day, their mistake has led me to all this hassle and being without any money for a few days. Also I am quite cross that 2 amounts were taken out, when I was only presented with one slip for the one amount to sign.

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated......

MarkO

I've had similar things happen. Usually if you explain the circumstances, the bank will refund the charges (they've done this several times for me - once even when it was my fault I went overdrawn ).

The company who wrongly debited your account twice should cover the charges as long as you can prove it was directly because of their mistake that you got charged. However, realistically I suspect you'll find you're p1ssing in the wind if you try and get the money back.

As for your wife, if she's angry with you because of a mistake made by somebody else, then just ignore her. Sure, having a card declined is embarassing, but it wasn't your fault so she should just deal with it.

Fast_Blue_Scooby

My wife is on my side. it is just that going out at the weekend shopping and not having any money to spend or finding out that you cannot spend what should be there is not something to take lightly.

I would have thought the company would be 100% responsible for me going overdrawn. I have the statement from my bank which clearly shows what happened when they processed the amount twice. Also the fact that I would have had more than enough in my account to cover what was due out and the fact that in 12 years with my bank, I have never ever overdrawn should stand me in good stead.

It really has caused me loads of hassle, phone calls, letters and I have not been able to use my account. At the end of the day it was the company's mistake and I do feel as if I have a strong case.

MarkO

All of which means that you need to speak to your bank and ask for their help to sort out this mess. They should be willing to do so.

If you've never been overdrawn, then the bank are being a bir harsh charging you for going overdrawn when it wasn't your fault. If they don't help you and offer to refund the charges, I would speak to the branch manager and suggest that it might be time that you moved your 15 year-old bank account to somebody who will be more helpful....

Phil

I would look at this very simplistically

If you signed the voucher only once then ask the BANK to provide proof that its a genuine transaction [which it is not]

Its a banking error

and should Refund all charges

The bank should deal with this NOT you

just my 2 euros'


Phil

Blobster

Plus, a debit card is just that. The bank should not allow a debit to be made if there is insufficient funds to cover it.
Talk to the bank calmly and I'm sure any charges will evaporate.

camk

Agree with Phil, just say the second was not an authorised transaction and that you'd never signed,any hassle then ask them to prove the transactions. The bank need to refund and no charges should apply. Its not your error and the bank should settle it at that without involving the company either.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Ask the bank to give you/extend your overdraft facility.

unclebuck

If they persist tell them you will change Banks. Take the names of the people you are dealing with. That'll make them think twice.

First Direct Have an automatic 250 pound overdraft facility when you open a current account.

P1Fanatic

Who are you banking with? Im with Natwest and a similar thing happened. Basically I sent a cheque to my credit card company for a large sum and they say they never got it on my payment date. So I paid by card over the phone so to avoid charges. 2.5 months later the credit card company cash the cheque they said they never got and took me over my overdraft limit.

Luckily Natwest said no problem and extended my overdraft to cover the extra money taken out and I didnt get charged at all.

Simon.

Fast_Blue_Scooby

My bank has since stated that if I put something in writing,then they should be able to reverse any charges if they see that a transaction has gone through without it being authorised. So a letter is on the way to them. Progress I think.

However I have also written a complaint to the company involved as they assured me that they would ensure that this amount would only be taken out once and that they would put it right last week if two lots had been taken out. The fact that they didn't refund me straight away as led to me being overdrawn. They also told me that they had checked their accounts and had come to the conclusion that only 1 amount had gone into their account. However my bank states that 2 amounts had been taken by the company so obviously the company did not check well enough.

I think debit cards do allow you to make purchases where you can go overdrawn. However they have charges for that happening.
Also I know that in the past, I have sometimes not been given a form to sign by mistake when making a debit card purchase, yet the money still goes out. I think the money is taken from your account as soon as the card is swiped, your signature or lack of it, makes no difference. Although in a case of dispute, like this, the lack of a signature would be something to fall back on, when you are are disputing an amount. Does anyone know exactly how debit card amounts are processed?

Phil

Signitures aren't checked these days

However in disputes the records are checked

Phil

MattN

The bank need to prove you authorised the card to be used. It's that simple.

Well, not so simple, as it's a debit card the cash has already gone. Oh the joy of credit cards! Basically it should be between the bank and the trader. But don't count on them to sort it out.
I drew out cash from nat-west yes cash, they debited it twice, oh it was for several thousand pounds. When I said I'm not paying these charges they said I had to as I went overdrawn. I kid you not, they thought I walked in to a branch and withdrew £5000 of money that wasn't in my account. They are useless.

Crapaud62

I've had this happen.

Company gave me a refund and lots of apologies.

Later on the bank also refunded the charges

I would be very surprised if the bank wouldn't waive the charges when it clearly wasn't your fault. Just be very polite with them but equally show them you mean business and would consider closing your account if they don't respond.

CarpetCleaner

even if you don't need an overdraft facility it's wise to have one to cover for these kind of cockups

sorry but what muppet doesn't have an overdraft facility

MarkO

CarpetCleaner - I don't have an O/D facility. Doesn't make me a muppet.

From the sounds of things, the transaction was substantial, so how big an O/D facility should we have? £250? £500? A grand? Where does it stop?!?

If I've got £1500k in the bank, and want to spend £1200 of it using my debit card, should I really have to have a £900 overdraft facility just in case some ******** in a shop runs my card through twice because he wasn't concentrating?

Also, in regards to the comment:The owner of the card hasn't ever had an overdraft. Perhaps his credit rating is good enough that the bank decided to authorise the payment anyway, assuming that funds would be made available in the account soon after? My bank has often authorised payments which take me overdrawn without charging me because they know I'll set the accounts straight soon after.

CarpetCleaner

one of the directors has got allegedly a 10grand overdraft facility....feckinell no chance of going overdrawn there then

dsmith

I bank with NatWest and have had no o/d facilty and havent had since I was a student. Recently miscalculated timings on our joint house account and went o/d by £39 for one night at the endof the month. Fees amounted to £40 .

Sent a letter pointing out account history, total I had with Natwest across all accounts that night, monthly income, the fact it amounted to >100% interest for 1 night, the fact I could follow their advice (reassess my financial service requirements) and move banks and a few other whinges I'd been meaning to get off my chest . Had a letter back saying all charges refunded but it was still my fault so ner.

Wrote to my branch (in Suffolk) get a letter back from "Nottingham Lending Centre"

There is another way - my ****.

Deano
Scooby for sale

[Edited by dsmith - 5/13/2003 10:31:20 AM]

dsmith

I think you find people with big o/ds simply run their account near that level. Once you get in the black its easy enough to run it at that level. Just use cc to iron out the small monthly bumps (like Scooby bills)

Deano
Scooby for sale

fast bloke

Move to the Woolwich - I have a 40k overdraft facility with no charges and the interest is charged at mortgage rate

When you make a card purchase the money is transferred automatically. The slip is there in case of complaint. The bank cannot decide to give you an overdraft facility without your permission, so they should have referred one of the payments. You usually get charged about a fiver for this. Complaining in writing is the correct procedure, but this can takes weeks or months to sort out. I find the best policy is to call in to your branch and have it out with the manager. Don't go into his office... do it loudly from the middle of the place. This generally gets is resolved in a few minutes

Also, get in contact with the company and ask how you make an official complaint about their fraudulent misuse of your card. Claim that in your opinion they were simply trying to take the additional amount in the belief that you wouldn't notice. The threat of being reported for fraud with subsequent investigation of all their transactions should help them decide they need to pay your charges quickly.

Good luck, and get a credit card instead