easyrider

It doesnt have a thermostat to monitor the pilot?
They use flame rectification-or in other words,the circuit board monitors it through the ignition probe.

easy

[Edited by easyrider - 12/9/2002 12:03:29 AM]

easyrider

Pete-there is a cover which covers the first fault-just phone up and ask for "3 star FXP" cover.
If the problem is with the pilot it isnt usually due to the "flashover"-on your boiler when there is a call for heat the fan runs,operates an air pressure switch,opens pilot gas solenoid along with the ignition spark generator-when the pilot flame is established the circuit board senses this through flame rectification(basically -no/incorrect flame it sences AC current-or-pilot flame established it senses DC current)very simple but clever eh!
The pilot flame may be altering when it gets hot or the probe is bending due to the heat.
It is possible that it isnt this(could be low gas pressure),without actually seeing what its doing its always hard to diagnose the fault.
The 3star FXP cover might actually be more than £180 but you can pay monthly by DD-its one of those gambles-you pay more money initally and the fault might be repairable without any parts needed OR it may need a circuit board that would cost £150 trade-the price of the cover remains the same-after the first year the price then goes down to £150 ish-you get an annual service+insurance+you will generally get an engineer within 24 hrs of your call 365 days of the year(just incase you havnt guessed,i work for them)
I do genuinely feel that it is an excellent cover for the money,and a good bit of piece of mind for you.

easy

p.s let me know how you get on.

[Edited by easyrider - 12/9/2002 11:55:28 PM]

pslewis

Easy - thanks mate

The solenoid coil is cheap but I cant see how to get the old one off to fit the new??? Its a red covered coil if you know the type??

Its still confusing me?

Pete

YHM - some photos as well!!

[Edited by pslewis - 12/10/2002 10:44:56 PM]

pslewis

Have a Boiler problem:-

Need some advice, please:-

Boiler fires up perfect then shuts off now and again.

Light on boiler - mains fine

Calling for heat - fine

Fan starts

Air pressure switch (a problem in the past) allows pilot to light

Pilot lights

Spark stops after pilot lights

Main Burner cross-lights from pilot - but then boiler shuts down after a while and then fires up again at will - have tried BOTH temp control thermostats - high and low, still shuts off randomly?

Now, Air Pressure switch - if that failed or told the boiler there was an incorrect air pressure would it shut the lot down (as I think) or would it leave the pilot alight?

Any ideas anyone as its driving me bonkers!! 3 way valve seems ok and pump 'Appears' fine - one idea I had is that if the pump was stopping then the water in the boiler woyuld heat up and turn off?

When the boiler turns off the pilot remains lit.

HELP!!

Pete

DRUNKNORGY

Had a similar problem on a combi boiler a couple of years ago, It was the flue fan on the way out. The boiler would overheat as the fan wasn't sucking the heat (and fumes)out and the thermocouple would trip it out. Changed the fan and it cured it. Was about £120 for the fan unit though.

Luke

Pete

Pump should be easy to tell. What type of boiler is it??
Also can you get to the fan and test it?? Ie, is it cutting out as suggested.Some combis etc the fan is easy to get to.
Eliminate the fan then go from there

Good luck..and thank god its not cold....

scooby nutter

If its a combi boiler ,most probable cause is a faulty/dead circuit board.

What sort of boiler is it??
Do you have the instructions?if so there is usually a fault finding flow diagram in the back

could also be ,depending on make and model,:broken/split air pressure pipes which connect to the fan ,these go brittle on worcestor combis,
:faulty gas valve/solenoid

fire it up again and feel the flow pipe from boiler.does it get very very hot?? if so could be faulty thermostat causing the boiler to overheat and shutdown.
pump could be on its way out and not shifting the water fast enough causing overheat

SN

pslewis

The Boiler is an Ideal ELEN 50 F

G.C. Number 4141572

Its a wall mounted, balanced flue, fanned, Gas Boiler

I have a manual with a flow chart in the back but, as is always the case, it doesnt seem to act in the way stated!!

It randomly shuts off - as if its getting too hot - But, and I think BUT, I thought when it reached temperature it shut down INCLUDING the pilot light?? And then fired it ALL up when it had cooled?? I 'may' be wrong - its bad when you cant remember what it did when it was working isnt it??

Thanks for the above replies - since 1997 the air pressure switch has acted up, whenever the boiler was turned off for a few days it wouldnt fire up until you covered the flue with newspaper, it then fired up and was fine for as long as it wasnt shut down again for a holiday and suchlike.

Pete

pslewis

Oh yes, can anyone recomend a reliable heating Engineer in the Reading - Newbury - Basingstoke Area, you know what I mean - one who will not imagine all kinds of faults at all kinds of prices!!??

Pete

easyrider

if the pilot is staying alight when it cuts out it could be a problem with the pilot light flame not being big enough or in other words- pilot jet partially blocked or spark electrode/sensor gap wrong or faulty pcb.The chances are that it is this, but it could possably be a few other problems.To be honest with you,it would be much safer getting a qualified engineer to look at it as there are several safety issues that could arise if you dont know what you are doing.
Hope this helps

easy

easyrider

Its probably not the pump because the pilot is staying alight(if the boiler had shut down on its stats ,the pilot would also go out.

phd

Could be the thermostat that monitors if the pilot light is still lit. They can burn out on old boilers.

Pete

CharlieWhiskey

nice to see pete asking for someone elses opinion!

pslewis

Thanks easy rider - I have investigated further and have got voltage on the Main burner Solenoid - this solenoid 'appears' to be closing then opening again randomly?? Do you know why this would happen? faulty Gas Valve Assembly??

I have spoken to a Qualified Heating Engineer on the phone - he seems to be at a loss too!!?? Not much point calling in an 'Expert' who can only do what I've done. They can fix it, I dont mind, but I like to know whats wrong first! And if they dont know it will be a matter of try this, try that!

Pete

easyrider

Pete-if the voltage on the solenoid is coming on and off then there isnt a problem with the solenoid(if the solenoid is breaking down you will still have a constant voltage),generally 99.9% of the time if the solenoid is faulty it wont work at all(but you will still have the voltage to it)
As i said before-the problem is probably with the pilot flame(too small/big) or ignition probe(incorrect gap) if it has voltage on/off at the solenoid.
To be honest,what with the safety implications involved,it will probably be better to bite the bullet and call British Gas and arrange to get a 3 star service cover,they do a cover which is more expensive for the first year (£180ish i think) which covers you for any current faults you have with the boiler(within reason)+youve got the backup if theres any problems after,also the rest of the heating system is covered(rads,hot water cylinder,controls ect)

easy

pslewis

Easy - thanks for your reply, you have been very helpful.

Have looked at the British Gas site and it says that exsisting faults are not covered at the £150/year. They will arrange an inspection on the installation - then cover it or return my money. The inspection will happen within 28 days - what happens if a 'fault' develops before then?? I wonder??

When you say that if there is voltage at the solenoid the solenoid is ok? I dont quite see that way of thinking? The PCB is sending voltage to operate the solenoid? Therefore if there is voltage at the solenoid it should operate? yes/no? So, when there is voltage there the solenoid will open the main gas valve - then there is flash over from the pilot (maybe, as you say, the pilot may be faulty and not allowing a flash over?) However, why would it be ok one moment and then NOT ok the next - would the flame change that much? As the main burner lights - runs about 20 minutes - cuts off - then fires up again about 20 minutes later??

Its driving me NUTS!! As I said - chatted to a heating engineer this evening - he was helpful, but didnt have any other ideas than those I had tried!!??

Thanks again Easy

Pete

easyrider

When they say they will check it within 28 days-thats for systems that havnt got a fault,the customer just wants their system covered.Because you have a fault,they will try to get to you as soon as poss.

easy

pslewis

Hi Easy - thanks again!!

Wish you were nearby, anyway - I reckon in my simple way and talking to the Boiler Manufacturers IDEAL, its the Main Burner Solenoid.

So, looking around - price for the IDEAL part is £145!!

Get the EXACT same one from Honeywell (Minus the 'O' ring seals and instructions) - £55!! Explain that??

ANYWAY - NOW I find out from the Honeywell website (Great these computers arent they?) that you can buy the Solenoid Coil - about £12 I would guess?? NOW we are talking!!

I have a very strong magnet and I 'may' offer it up to the Solenoid tonight when it clicks off to see if I can 'Pull' it back on - that should sort whats what once and for all??

What if I took the 3 star cover - engineer comes fires it up, works fine of course as it does for 10 minutes, he signs it as OK - then I call them out?

Whats all this con about a Powerflush?? dont like the look of that!! No system needs that, if its so sludged up its running wrong!

Thanks again Easy - your thoughts on the above??

Pete

easyrider

Hi Pete--trying the coil will be a very cheap way of finding out if it is to blame.I cant remember without looking back if you said that there was power present at the burner coil when it clicked off???--better still--mail me your number if you like and i can explain it easier by talking over the phone.

easy

easyrider

if my memory serves me correctly-there should be a clip between the base of the solenoid and the metal plate- just pull that out and it should slide off the spindle------hang on a min-----ive just found the one you need----there is a thin metal plate that folds under the base of the solenoid between the solenoid and the thicker outer plate--just pull the thin plate out from the side with some pin nose pliers and it will come straight off.(20 second job)
That goes to prove the parts that i have to carry does come in handy sometimes!!!

easy

pslewis

You have mail Easy

With some photos - hope you dont mind?

Honeywell are the Solenoids - part number:- 45.900.406-003 not sure if they are easily obtained???

Cheers

Pete