ADSL - Internet - what's wrong?
20 November 2002, 09:30 PM
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Are you experiencing very slow response time during connection especially after 19:00 ?
I'm getting fed up
1) Alcatel Speedtouch USB is SH()T
2) BT Openworld is the slowest service providers among all others.
Today I had to disconnect and wait before reconnecting for at least 6 times.
Andrea
I'm getting fed up
1) Alcatel Speedtouch USB is SH()T
2) BT Openworld is the slowest service providers among all others.
Today I had to disconnect and wait before reconnecting for at least 6 times.
Andrea
20 November 2002, 10:06 PM
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Entirely possible - this was posted up recently. As was hinted at in the earlier response, both cable modems and ADSL connections can suffer with contention ratio problems (i.e. the number of people sharing the line).
With cable modems, the problem occurs because in effect, a cable modem is simply connected to a large 'flat' LAN. Therefore, if you are in an area with a large number of your neighbours all having cable modems, then there is a good chance that you will suffer slower line speeds as everyone competes for bandwidth.
With ADSL, congestion problems occur at the DSLAM (DSL Access Multiplexor). Basically, your ADSL circuit is terminated onto a DSLAM at the exchange. From the DSLAM, there is normally an ATM circuit that feeds into BT's backbone network and then onto the Internet.
The DSLAM supports a finite number of connections and bandwidth, as more people log on, the bandwidth is divided between each channel. There comes a point when the number of people logged on exceeds the bandwidth available and hence the bandwidth made available to each user is reduced. This is most likely to happen in peak usage periods (i.e. early evening when everyone comes home from work and logs on)
Almost all ADSL connections will terminate on BT exchanges and BT equipment (most suppliers are simply reselling the BT service), so BT Openworld is probably no more or less likely to suffer a slowdown in service than any other supplier.
There were similar problems in the States when ADSL was first rolled out. This led to access speeds lower than your average dial-up modem. The simple answer to this is to add more access connections and more bandwidth at the exchange - however, this costs money.
Seeing that BT is still reluctant to roll out ADSL unless there is high demand, I can't see them upgrading existing services at the moment.
My only suggestion is to look at changing to one of the 'business' ADSL packages that have a lower contention ratio (30:1 as opposed to 50:1 I think) - but obviously this costs more money!
Cheers
Chris
With cable modems, the problem occurs because in effect, a cable modem is simply connected to a large 'flat' LAN. Therefore, if you are in an area with a large number of your neighbours all having cable modems, then there is a good chance that you will suffer slower line speeds as everyone competes for bandwidth.
With ADSL, congestion problems occur at the DSLAM (DSL Access Multiplexor). Basically, your ADSL circuit is terminated onto a DSLAM at the exchange. From the DSLAM, there is normally an ATM circuit that feeds into BT's backbone network and then onto the Internet.
The DSLAM supports a finite number of connections and bandwidth, as more people log on, the bandwidth is divided between each channel. There comes a point when the number of people logged on exceeds the bandwidth available and hence the bandwidth made available to each user is reduced. This is most likely to happen in peak usage periods (i.e. early evening when everyone comes home from work and logs on)
Almost all ADSL connections will terminate on BT exchanges and BT equipment (most suppliers are simply reselling the BT service), so BT Openworld is probably no more or less likely to suffer a slowdown in service than any other supplier.
There were similar problems in the States when ADSL was first rolled out. This led to access speeds lower than your average dial-up modem. The simple answer to this is to add more access connections and more bandwidth at the exchange - however, this costs money.
Seeing that BT is still reluctant to roll out ADSL unless there is high demand, I can't see them upgrading existing services at the moment.
My only suggestion is to look at changing to one of the 'business' ADSL packages that have a lower contention ratio (30:1 as opposed to 50:1 I think) - but obviously this costs more money!
Cheers
Chris
20 November 2002, 11:22 PM
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Thx Chris,
the fact that really upsets me is the price for an enhanced adsl.
Everybody knows that an ethernet card would increase the download speed by 10kbps. But BT insists to sell the crap alcatel modem to prevent multple access and sells faster packages for outrageous prices that can be justified just for business purposes IMO. Second the ADSL is sold in this country as the revolution for the INternet. In my country ( ITALY not USA, ITALY) ALL the major cities are cabled with optic fiber 2Mbps for a price 10-20% more that an adsl BT contract here plus you get free local call in the monthly subscription.
BT states that until the adsl market will be saturated will not switch to optic fiber. MEAN: the infrastructures are already grounded BUT BT is SLOWING down the INNOVATION.
I'm bored of this.
Andrea
the fact that really upsets me is the price for an enhanced adsl.
Everybody knows that an ethernet card would increase the download speed by 10kbps. But BT insists to sell the crap alcatel modem to prevent multple access and sells faster packages for outrageous prices that can be justified just for business purposes IMO. Second the ADSL is sold in this country as the revolution for the INternet. In my country ( ITALY not USA, ITALY) ALL the major cities are cabled with optic fiber 2Mbps for a price 10-20% more that an adsl BT contract here plus you get free local call in the monthly subscription.
BT states that until the adsl market will be saturated will not switch to optic fiber. MEAN: the infrastructures are already grounded BUT BT is SLOWING down the INNOVATION.
I'm bored of this.
Andrea
21 November 2002, 08:37 AM
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Tend to agree with you. However, one thing in BTs defence: about 8 or 9 years ago, BT said they would completey recable the UK infrastructure with fibre optic.
Obviously there was a serious cost involved in doing this, so BT asked the government that in return for bank rolling the cabling, they should be allowed to then offer multimedia services to their customers via their phones lines etc on an exclusive or semi-exclusive basis. Can't remember all the facts, but it was basically this.
The government in their infinite wisdom turned them down and we missed out on having the most modem infrastructure in Europe (probably in the world). Who's slowing down the pace of innovation?
Chris
Obviously there was a serious cost involved in doing this, so BT asked the government that in return for bank rolling the cabling, they should be allowed to then offer multimedia services to their customers via their phones lines etc on an exclusive or semi-exclusive basis. Can't remember all the facts, but it was basically this.
The government in their infinite wisdom turned them down and we missed out on having the most modem infrastructure in Europe (probably in the world). Who's slowing down the pace of innovation?
Chris
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21 November 2002, 08:46 AM
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what you sign up for is very different to what you get.
my 512k cable modem averages around 50kb downloads. i know the speed can be constrained by the server at the other end but this is consistent from a variety of sites.
ntl are sh*te
my 512k cable modem averages around 50kb downloads. i know the speed can be constrained by the server at the other end but this is consistent from a variety of sites.
ntl are sh*te
21 November 2002, 01:48 PM
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neilbb,
I have an NTL 512kb line and find that I get download rates of 64kb/sec + which is excellent seeing as the maximum theoretical speed on 512kilobits is 64kilobytes per second.
With regard to ADSL, you don't have to use (or even order) the Alcatel modem, just order a wires only install and supply your own equipment.
Home users are contended 50:1, Buisiness users 20:1
However, your congestion may not be at the DSLAM. My company "re-sells" BT ADSL but it's not the same product. Our ADSL lines are routed from the users home, into the DSLAM and onto BT's Collosus network to BT in Birmingham, where traffic is directed up a private feed onto our network and then uses our backbone to access the internet.
The Collosus network is the biggest and busiest network in Europe, it's the M25 of networks, in fact. If you are a BT Openworld customer, you're relying on that network for all of your access.
We have transferred customers from BT Openworld (a nightmare in itself) and they have all commented on how much faster the service is. In fact, we put an install into a customers office alongside their existing Openworld connection and the speed difference was obvious.
I have an NTL 512kb line and find that I get download rates of 64kb/sec + which is excellent seeing as the maximum theoretical speed on 512kilobits is 64kilobytes per second.
With regard to ADSL, you don't have to use (or even order) the Alcatel modem, just order a wires only install and supply your own equipment.
Home users are contended 50:1, Buisiness users 20:1
However, your congestion may not be at the DSLAM. My company "re-sells" BT ADSL but it's not the same product. Our ADSL lines are routed from the users home, into the DSLAM and onto BT's Collosus network to BT in Birmingham, where traffic is directed up a private feed onto our network and then uses our backbone to access the internet.
The Collosus network is the biggest and busiest network in Europe, it's the M25 of networks, in fact. If you are a BT Openworld customer, you're relying on that network for all of your access.
We have transferred customers from BT Openworld (a nightmare in itself) and they have all commented on how much faster the service is. In fact, we put an install into a customers office alongside their existing Openworld connection and the speed difference was obvious.
21 November 2002, 06:35 PM
#10
Pontificating
I have been experiancing the same problems with BT, back in May when I first had it installed, it was awesome, super fast, now its nearly as slow as narrowband. In the end I rang them up and they did a few on line tests, testing the Ping amongst other things, eventually they noticed it wasnt behaving how it should and got their engineers on it, all i had to do was leave the PC on for 48 hours, they did it in 12 hours and its better but nothing like it was back in the summer, BT engineer says its so popular now more and more people are onboard and it slows it all down in the evening.
Interesting points on BT approaching the govt, all we hear now is Blair saying all schools and business should have broadband, whoops.
Maybe Blue Yonders new one might be worth a try, twice as fast as broaband or something like that, i think its called 1 Gig or 1 Meg.
Dave
Interesting points on BT approaching the govt, all we hear now is Blair saying all schools and business should have broadband, whoops.
Maybe Blue Yonders new one might be worth a try, twice as fast as broaband or something like that, i think its called 1 Gig or 1 Meg.
Dave
21 November 2002, 06:51 PM
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neilbbb, 50kbps is very good and you should see the money these guys spend on infrastructure to support the services. As NotoriousREV said the maximum you could get is 64kbps. The service is 512kbits so that is 512000 bits per second. You get 8 bits per byte which gives you 64000 bytes per second or 64kbps. If you take into account overheads such as protocol headers like IP, TCP and PPP then 50kbps of actual data throughput is not bad at all.
Si
[Edited by SiCotty - 11/21/2002 6:53:46 PM]
Si
[Edited by SiCotty - 11/21/2002 6:53:46 PM]
21 November 2002, 07:53 PM
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ok so maybe 50kbs isn't so bad...
but three times in the past week the service has been down and you spend at least 30 minutes on hold trying to report faults.
but as i live in a village bt broadband is not available so i guess i'm stuck with ntl....
until the service providers get their (collective) a*ses in gear then broadband will not get the take up it should enjoy...
but three times in the past week the service has been down and you spend at least 30 minutes on hold trying to report faults.
but as i live in a village bt broadband is not available so i guess i'm stuck with ntl....
until the service providers get their (collective) a*ses in gear then broadband will not get the take up it should enjoy...
21 November 2002, 10:42 PM
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I've got NTL cable aswell and it has been very good. We've had one outage of about 4 days and a dodgy cable modem, that was replaced by NTL. Other than that, we get very good download rates. I typically get well above 512K - normally closer to 700K or 800K.
Comments about the DSLAM not being the only place for congestion are very true, but it is the most likely cause and it can be a serious bottleneck. At my previous company we designed and manufactured ADSL routers - we spent a lot of our time testing with Motorola and BT at Martelsham and the majority of the time, the problems came at the DSLAM.
DSLAMs ain't cheap, so if you want to limit the rollout costs of an ADSL network, the obvious thing to do is to put in the minimum capacity that you think you can get away with. The problem with this is that there is little or no safety margin and you start to have problems with overcrowding.
With our dial-in PoPs at work, there is an automatic trigger - when capacity reaches 75%, an order is generated to install new lines and termination boxes (no small undertaking, as we have well over 1400 PoPs!). I doubt that BT has such a luxury with its ADSL network.
Chris
Comments about the DSLAM not being the only place for congestion are very true, but it is the most likely cause and it can be a serious bottleneck. At my previous company we designed and manufactured ADSL routers - we spent a lot of our time testing with Motorola and BT at Martelsham and the majority of the time, the problems came at the DSLAM.
DSLAMs ain't cheap, so if you want to limit the rollout costs of an ADSL network, the obvious thing to do is to put in the minimum capacity that you think you can get away with. The problem with this is that there is little or no safety margin and you start to have problems with overcrowding.
With our dial-in PoPs at work, there is an automatic trigger - when capacity reaches 75%, an order is generated to install new lines and termination boxes (no small undertaking, as we have well over 1400 PoPs!). I doubt that BT has such a luxury with its ADSL network.
Chris
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