IanWatson

RIght - need some assistance here.

My girlfriend and I have a cat, Elwood, who is 18 months old. We live in a decent sized apartment in Amsterdam.
We used to have two cats, brothers, but Jake died a few weeks ago after running away from our friend who was cat sitting whilst we were away (another story).
We've always had some problems with 'wet patches' - despite the cats using the litter trays from day one. If clothes are left on the floor, they sometimes get wet. We have always done the 'pick up the cat, rub it's nose in the pee, tell him he's BAD, and let them sulk. The litter tray gets emptied every couple of days.

Since Jake died, Elwood has become very vocal - almost as if he's talking. If he wants something he just keeps miaowing. Doesn't seem distressed, just noisy. He's also starting peeing even more.

I discovered at the weekend that he peed on our new (untreated) teak dining table, and this morning there were two wet patches on the bedroom carpet, which is that hessian stuff that discolours if it gets wet. The table is OK, but will need a new carpet.

He knows he's doing wrong - his behaviour completely changed as I was discovering the pee on the dining room table, without saying anything he acted just as thought he'd already been punished, hiding under the bed etc, despite being fine all day up to that point.


I'm reaching my wit's end, we can't keep going on like this, and I've starting fighting with the girlfriend over whether we can keep him or not.

She feels it's down to boredom and we should fit a cat flap to the front door (first floor, so no back garden).
I'm not convinced it will have much effect, and I'm not keen on cutting a hole in the front door and encouraging any future tenants (we want to rent out soon) to keep cats.

I think the behaviour could have become too much of a habit for things to change now, cat flap or not - he knows he doing something wrong, yet he keeps doing it.

If he wasn't such a lovely cat the remaining 99% of the time it would be no-brainer, but he is, so it's not.

Any ideas?

Mice_Elf

Couple of things to consider :

a) he may be lonely and missing his brother, his wetting is a way of getting attention, similar to a child who acts up, purely to get noticed
b) He may have an infection / weak bladder problem - may be worth getting him checked
c) Empty the litter tray EVERY day, if not as soon as he does his business - cats are very fastidious animals and will not use a dirty tray.
d) Now he's wet in the house, this will contain his smell - he may be thinking that he is "allowed" to wet in the house and it confuses him when you tell him off
e) Try setting out an area purely for Elwood - where he has his blankets / bedding / toys to make him feel secure.

Hope this helps.

Mice.

Mice_Elf

Also - it may be worth thinking about getting him a playmate...he may be bored.

stevencotton

Rubbing a cats nose in its own business doesn't help one iota, cats don't learn the same way as dogs and will have no idea what you're doing to it, all you're doing is making it scared of you. You have to catch them pretty much in the act and scare the hell out of them with a loud whistle, hand clap, water pistol, something they'll not like. As already mentioned above, empty the litter tray every single day, make sure it's completely clean and they will usually prefer to use that. Well worth going to the vet as well to make sure it doesn't have some bladder problem, and he may well be missing his brother :/

Good luck,
Steve.

Redkop

Is he neutered?

Mice_Elf

His miaouing may be trying to call for his brother...if he's had 18 months of him being there and suddenly he's gone, he's going to be understandably upset and confused.

When one of my cats was run over, I managed to get him into the house before he died and I let all the other cats sniff him and see him there. This didn't stop them from yowling every now and then, as though calling for him to see where he'd gone.

When cats are uncomfortable with the situation, they miaou. If the wetting occurs mostly when you're out, Elwood may be worrying that you will not come back - like his brother.

Clarebabes

Hey Lynne I was just going to ask that!

But yeah, symptom of missing his brother probably. I had a cat that used to "scent" and it drove me mad. Actually got better when he went outside more as he got older. I know that is not an option for you, but if you're moving soon, perhaps consider access to a garden.

Also, have you changed his type of cat litter recently? I have just done this with Harry because the wood based stuff was really good, but after using his tray, I could see where he was walking due to the trail of sawdust! I am paranoid now that he is going to not like this new litter and poo around the house. As yet, no problems

NotoriousREV

I can't help much with the wetting thing, but my cat, Kenny became more vocal when his sister, Cerys, went missing. He still does it 18 month after she's gone, previously he was the quiet one, she did the mioawing for the pair of them.

IanWatson

thanks for the replies so far - maybe we'll have to rethink our 'educating' process.

Thing is - as soon as I started to clear the pee off the dining room table (this after a morning curled up together on the sofa) he jumped up, shot past me into the bedroom. When I wandered in after him (not shouting) he was under the bed, spitting.

Redkop - bad result on Saturday btw he has been chopped. We'd love to get him a new playmate, but the chipping process takes 6/7 months before they can be taken abroad and I don't want to be tied up here for that long for the sake of a pet.

It seems to happen in the night or early morning - I've NEVER seen him do it, so the water spray/noise thing won't work.

Will get a urine sample and get it checked asap. Will also religously clean his litter tray.

Ralf

Obviously: Tell him Jake is in prison but will come back. If he wants to see him, he must learn to behave and thus not
endanger his brothers probation

Mice_Elf

Yes, because you've now indoctrinated into him that he is going to get his nose rubbed in it...he's scared of you, in this instance.

Why does the chipping process take 6 - 7 months before you can take them abroad? If you mean they can only be chipped at 6 months, then that isn't the case. I had my kitten chipped at 4 months, pretty much as soon as I received her.

IanWatson

We'll try 'your brother is in prison' - might just work
The chipping thing is related to the length of time after the initial vaccination and chip fitting before you are able to travel. We were told that it would be around 4/6 months after getting it chipped before it's sufficient to say the cat is rabies free - bearing in mind we're based in Amsterdam, may be different advice..



Well - we spent the entire evening playing with Elwood, gave him loads of attention (he's started bringing his toy mouse back to us to be thrown again, which is very sweet).

Light was switched off, started dozing, and was woken by the unmistakable sound of wee hitting carpet. Jumped up and shouted, he disappeared. Little b@stard...

Think this is going to be a long process...

Mice_Elf

It's not going to be an Insta-Cure, Ian... He's confused, upset, disorientated and bewildered...that doesn't change with one night of cuddles...

When my cats were little and I allowed them a litter tray, if they started going anywhere else, I picked them up, which usually ceased flow and plonked them in the tray to show them where they were supposed to go.

Maybe the tray is too exposed - some cats are picky about being "on show".

I know it sounds daft, but try leaving a light on...if the light going off activated the defence, leave one on...

Just a suggestion...

Nic

Also be careful what/how you clean up the mess. Using standard household cleaners can encourage animals to remark the same patch. Best thing to use is a biological washing powder, sprinkle a bit on wet it.....and scrub!

Mice_Elf

Hmmm...thought...you've now made him scared to go when it's light - as he gets told off and can't understand why...could be why he goes as soon as you switch off the light...

Black pepper is also good at discouraging them, after the site has been thoroughly cleaned.

foldertronics

Maybe try a hooded cat tray, offers them a little more privacy, poor boy is probably well stressed at the moment. They dont like change at all - he may have even picked up the vibe that you are moving soon - thats unsettling as well. Just be patient with him and try the things suggested here - im sure things will get better

Gordo

can't help any further than the previous posts but would re-iterate changing the litter more often - have you seen him sniffing it and taking ages before using it? they're not happy if it's dirty. shame you can't let him out as that generally cures most problems but does mean you acquire mice (or bits of them!) instead.

We have two tom cats and have always treated them like dogs - nose rubbing/ gentle cuff round the head soon stops them doing anything they know they shouldn't. i.e. I disagree with the post that says not to do this - to be fair, try different things, generalising never works with the little sods.

good luck
Gordo

Mice_Elf

My cats did indeed get their noses rubbed in it and the very tips of their ears flicked - only gently, but it's a sensitive enough area to tell them that what they have done is wrong.

One of mine went through a habit of biting when her teeth were coming through, but she swiftly learnt the correlation between biting my fingers and sore ears...

Fortunately now, they don't have a litter tray at all, for which I am very grateful.

Jen

All good suggestions Only other I can add is to try a spray in the area he likes such as "Get Off" spray which seems to work very well with our cats...can you get anything like that over there? They have a whole selection in most pet shops I've been in over here.. Essentially scares them off the area/s, might be worth trying even if it's the whole house!

Other thing I think someone has already said is that if they do mess on the carpet it has to be cleaned really well, or it contains their scent and they'll think they can carry on if you leave a mess...it's like encouraging them! We usually give the area a clean and spray with the "Get Off" spray afterwards...otherwise, I've found having a cat flap has really helped - don't think we've had any problems since then, and we've somehow ended up with 5 cats!

Good luck!

Jen

Mice_Elf

Cats are greeet on twisties..

Mice_Elf

Is it really out of the question to get him a playmate? If you get a kitten (which is more easily acceptable), then he may well setlle down.

He had 18 months of companionship now suddenly he is bereft...

Mice_Elf

Is it really out of the question to get him a playmate? If you get a kitten (which is more easily acceptable), then he may well settle down.

He had 18 months of companionship now suddenly he is bereft...


(Error on SN, so this maybe posted twice....)

IanWatson

Thing is, Mice-Elf, I don't think he's that stupid - I'm convinced that this isn't 'innocent' behaviour, he knows he shouldn't be peeing anywhere but the litter tray, for some reason he still chooses to do so from time to time.
It's attention seeking, always used to pee on the spare bed if people were staying for the weekend or if we have a short lie-in on a Saturday - there are little puddles.

I forgot to say that less than an hour before he 'painted' the bedroom carpet last night I heard him using his (covered) litter tray.

One additional factor is that we've been advised not to keep responding to (and therefore reinforcing) his constant talking and crying - basically ignore him when he shouts, and fuss him when he doesn't. I don't think this has helped this pee problem, but the amount of noise he makes is just ridiculous. He just walks around chatting to himself or us and doesn't sound too distressed.

I'm fighting with the girlfriend (are you reading Deb? ) about the catflap on the front. May have to bite the bullet and do it.

The 'friend' idea would be great, I'd love another kitten, but again I hear it's 6 months after the intial chip before they can travel.

Just bought some 'Getaway' spray, will cover every corner with the stuff!

Mice_Elf

Oh, I don't for one minute think that he is stupid, cats are very devious animals.

It does indeed sound like attention seeking, if there is nothing wrong with him, internally.

On the cat flap front, if you DO get one fitted, make sure he knows his area, otherwise he may go off wandering and lose his way home. I put my 4 on leads and walked them individually around the garden fro about 20 minutes a time, for a week or so, just so that they learnt their boundaries. Got some strange looks, but no missing cats.

Hope you get it sorted.


Does he have his own bed, btw? If he does, could you not wrap a toy in one of your jumpers, so that it has your scent, just so that he has something to snuggle up to?

IanWatson

'Does he have a bed'?!!!!

He has a couple of those basket/cushion things around the flat that he likes, he's got a radiator basket thing, he sleeps on our bed with us at night..

If I put a jumper of mine on the floor all he'd do it pee on it!

The cat flap thing is also a problem, as we are a first floor flat. We have steps to the front door, but only a large balcony at the back.

Ideally we'd give him free access to balcony, but like most Amsterdam blocks the back gardens are enclosed, with flats on all four sides and Elwood seems to enjoy falling off the balcony late in the evening. This means we have to disturb our ground floor neighbour, who is a bit of loony bag lady.

We've have to keep the back door shut now.

Looks like it will be the catflap in the front door.

(we tried the lead thing in the Vondelpark - it didn't work - and when the parrots attacked it got worse!)

ajm

This is mad... it sounds like you are talking about an errant child here, rather that a cat! Rather than doing psychoanalysis on it why don't you take it to a vet and get it diagnosed properly? Won't getting a cat flap just inflict the yowling and peeing problem on all of your neighbours?

I don't want to sound rude as its obvious you are very partial to it, just thought an injection of practicality was in order... although to be fair I admit I am not a fan of cats...